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9 things you should consider before embarking on a PhD

June 23, 2021 | 15 min read

By Andy Greenspon

The ideal research program you envision is not what it appears to be

Editor's Note:  When Andy Greenspon wrote this article, he was a first-year student in Applied Physics at Harvard. Now he has completed his PhD. — Alison Bert, June 23, 2021

If you are planning to apply for a PhD program, you're probably getting advice from dozens of students, professors, administrators your parents and the Internet. Sometimes it's hard to know which advice to focus on and what will make the biggest difference in the long-run. So before you go back to daydreaming about the day you accept that Nobel Prize, here are nine things you should give serious thought to. One or more of these tips may save you from anguish and help you make better decisions as you embark on that path to a PhD.

1. Actively seek out information about PhD programs.

Depending on your undergraduate institution, there may be more or less support to guide you in selecting a PhD program – but there is generally much less than when you applied to college.

On the website of my physics department, I found a page written by one of my professors, which listed graduate school options in physics and engineering along with resources to consult. As far as I know, my career center did not send out much information about PhD programs. Only after applying to programs did I find out that my undergraduate website had a link providing general information applicable to most PhD programs. This is the kind of information that is available all over the Internet.

So don't wait for your career center or department to lay out a plan for you. Actively seek it out from your career center counselors, your professors, the Internet — and especially from alumni from your department who are in or graduated from your desired PhD program. First-hand experiences will almost always trump the knowledge you get second-hand.

2. A PhD program is not simply a continuation of your undergraduate program.

Many students don't internalize this idea until they have jumped head-first into a PhD program. The goal is not to complete an assigned set of courses as in an undergraduate program, but to develop significant and original research in your area of expertise. You will have required courses to take, especially if you do not have a master's degree yet, but these are designed merely to compliment your research and provide a broad and deep knowledge base to support you in your research endeavors.

At the end of your PhD program, you will be judged on your research, not on how well you did in your courses. Grades are not critical as long as you maintain the minimum GPA requirement, and you should not spend too much time on courses at the expense of research projects. Graduate courses tend to be designed to allow you to take away what you will find useful to your research more than to drill a rigid set of facts and techniques into your brain.

3. Take a break between your undergraduate education and a PhD program.

You are beginning your senior year of college, and your classmates are asking you if you are applying to graduate school. You think to yourself, "Well, I like studying this topic and the associated research, and I am going to need a PhD if I want to be a professor or do independent research, so I might as well get it done as soon as possible." But are you certain about the type of research you want to do? Do you know where you want to live for the next five years? Are you prepared to stay in an academic environment for nine years straight?

Many people burn out or end up trudging through their PhD program without a thought about what lies outside of or beyond it. A break of a year or two or even more may be necessary to gain perspective. If all you know is an academic environment, how can you compare it to anything else? Many people take a job for five or more years before going back to get their PhD. It is true though that the longer you stay out of school, the harder it is to go back to an academic environment with lower pay and a lack of set work hours. A one-year break will give you six months or so after graduation before PhD applications are due. A two-year gap might be ideal to provide time to identify your priorities in life and explore different areas of research without having school work or a thesis competing for your attention.

Getting research experience outside of a degree program can help focus your interests and give you a leg up on the competition when you finally decide to apply. It can also help you determine whether you will enjoy full-time research or if you might prefer an alternative career path that still incorporates science, for example, in policy, consulting or business — or a hybrid research job that combines scientific and non-scientific skills.

I will be forever grateful that I chose to do research in a non-academic environment for a year between my undergraduate and PhD programs. It gave me the chance to get a feel for doing nothing but research for a full year. Working at the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory in the Space Division, I was the manager of an optics lab, performing spectroscopic experiments on rocks and minerals placed in a vacuum chamber. While my boss determined the overall experimental design, I was able to make my own suggestions for experiments and use my own discretion in how to perform them. I presented this research at two national conferences as well — a first for me. I was also able to learn about other research being performed there, determine which projects excited me the most, and thus narrow down my criteria for a PhD program.

4. Your current area of study does not dictate what you have to study in graduate school.

You might be studying the function and regulation of membrane proteins or doing a computational analysis of the conductivity of different battery designs, but that doesn't mean your PhD project must revolve around similar projects. The transition between college or another research job to a PhD program is one of the main transitions in your life when it is perfectly acceptable to completely change research areas.

If you are doing computation, you may want to switch to lab-based work or vice versa. If you are working in biology but have always had an interest in photonics research, now is the time to try it out. You may find that you love the alternative research and devote your PhD to it, you might hate it and fall back on your previous area of study — or you may even discover a unique topic that incorporates both subjects.

One of the best aspects of the PhD program is that you can make the research your own. Remember, the answer to the question "Why are you doing this research?" should not be "Well, because it's what I've been working on for the past few years already."While my undergraduate research was in atomic physics, I easily transitioned into applied physics and materials science for my PhD program and was able to apply much of what I learned as an undergraduate to my current research. If you are moving from the sciences to a non-STEM field such as social sciences or humanities, this advice can still apply, though the transition is a bit more difficult and more of a permanent commitment.

5. Make sure the PhD program has a variety of research options, and learn about as many research groups as possible in your first year.

Even if you believe you are committed to one research area, you may find that five years of such work is not quite what you expected. As such, you should find a PhD program where the professors are not all working in the same narrowly focused research area. Make sure there are at least three professors working on an array of topics you could imagine yourself working on.

In many graduate programs, you are supposed to pick a research advisor before even starting. But such arrangements often do not work out, and you may be seeking a new advisor before you know it. That's why many programs give students one or two semesters to explore different research areas before choosing a permanent research advisor.

In your first year, you should explore the research of a diverse set of groups. After touring their labs, talking to the students, or sitting in on group meetings, you may find that this group is the right one for you.

In addition, consider the importance of who your research advisor will be. This will be the person you interact with regularly for five straight years and who will have a crucial influence on your research. Do you like their advising style? Does their personality mesh with yours? Can you get along? Of course, the research your advisor works on is critical, but if you have large disagreements at every meeting or do not get helpful advice on how to proceed with your research, you may not be able to succeed. At the very least, you must be able to handle your advisor's management of the lab and advising style if you are going to be productive in your work. The Harvard program I enrolled in has professors working on research spanning from nanophotonics to energy materials and biophysics, covering my wide range of interests. By spending time in labs and offices informally chatting with graduate students, I found an advisor whose personality and research interests meshed very well with me. Their genuine enthusiasm for this advisor and their excitement when talking about their research was the best input I could have received.

6. Location is more important than you think — but name recognition is not.

The first consideration in choosing a PhD program should be, "Is there research at this university that I am passionate about?" After all, you will have to study this topic in detail for four or more years. But when considering the location of a university, your first thought should not be, "I'm going to be in the lab all the time, so what does it matter if I'm by the beach, in a city, or in the middle of nowhere." Contrary to popular belief, you will have a life outside of the lab, and you will have to be able to live with it for four or more years. Unlike when you were an undergraduate, your social and extracurricular life will revolve less around the university community, so the environment of the surrounding area is important. Do you need a city atmosphere to be productive? Or is your ideal location surrounded by forests and mountains or by a beach? Is being close to your family important? Imagine what it will be like living in the area during the times you are not doing research; consider what activities will you do and how often will you want to visit family.

While many of the PhD programs that accepted me had research that truly excited me, the only place I could envision living for five or more years was Boston, as the city I grew up near and whose environment and culture I love, and to be close to my family.

While location is more important than you think, the reputation and prestige of the university is not. In graduate school, the reputation of the individual department you are joining — and sometimes even the specific research group you work in — are more important. There, you will develop research collaborations and professional connections that will be crucial during your program and beyond. When searching for a job after graduation, other scientists will look at your specific department, the people you have worked with and the research you have done.

At the Asgard Irish Pub in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Andy Greenspon talks with fellow graduate students from Harvard and MIT at an Ask for Evidence workshop organized by Sense About Science. He grew up near Boston and chose to go to graduate school there.

7. Those time management skills you developed in college? Develop them further.

After surviving college, you may think you have mastered the ability to squeeze in your coursework, extracurricular activities and even some sleep. In a PhD program, time management reaches a whole new level. You will not only have lectures to attend and homework to do. You will have to make time for your research, which will include spending extended periods of time in the lab, analyzing data, and scheduling time with other students to collaborate on research.

Also, you will most likely have to teach for a number of semesters, and you will want to attend any seminar that may be related to your research or that just peaks your interest. To top it all off, you will still want to do many of those extracurricular activities you did as an undergraduate. While in the abstract, it may seem simple enough to put this all into your calendar and stay organized, you will find quickly enough that the one hour you scheduled for a task might take two or three hours, putting you behind on everything else for the rest of the day or forcing you to cut other planned events. Be prepared for schedules to go awry, and be willing to sacrifice certain activities. For some, this might be sleep; for others, it might be an extracurricular activity or a few seminars they were hoping to attend. In short, don't panic when things don't go according to plan; anticipate possible delays and be ready to adapt.

8. Expect to learn research skills on the fly – or take advantage of the training your department or career center offers.

This may be the first time you will have to write fellowship or grant proposals, write scientific papers, attend conferences, present your research to others, or even peer-review scientific manuscripts. From my experience, very few college students or even PhD students receive formal training on how to perform any of these tasks. Usually people follow by example. But this is not always easy and can be quite aggravating sometimes. So seek out talks or interactive programs offered by your department or career center. The effort will be well worth it when you realize you've become quite adept at quickly and clearly explaining your research to others and at outlining scientific papers and grant proposals. Alternatively, ask a more experienced graduate student or your advisor for advice on these topics. In addition, be prepared for a learning curve when learning all the procedures and processes of the group you end up working in. There may be many new protocols to master, whether they involve synthesizing chemicals, growing bacterial cells, or aligning mirrors on an optical table. In addition, the group may use programming languages or data analysis software you are unfamiliar with. Don't get discouraged but plan to spend extra effort getting used to these procedures and systems. After working with them regularly, they will soon become second nature. When I first started my job at Johns Hopkins, I felt overwhelmed by all the intricacies of the experiment and definitely made a few mistakes, including breaking a number of optical elements. But by the end of my year there, I had written an updated protocol manual for the modifications I had made to the experimental procedures and was the "master" passing on my knowledge to the next person taking the job.

9. There are no real breaks.

In a stereotypical "9-to-5" job, when the workday is over or the weekend arrives, you can generally forget about your work. And a vacation provides an even longer respite. But in a PhD program, your schedule becomes "whenever you find time to get your work done." You might be in the lab during regular work hours or you might be working until 10 p.m. or later to finish an experiment. And the only time you might have available to analyze data might be at 1 a.m. Expect to work during part of the weekend, too. Graduate students do go on vacations but might still have to do some data analysis or a literature search while away.

As a PhD student, it might be hard to stop thinking about the next step in an experiment or that data sitting on your computer or that paper you were meaning to start. While I imagine some students can bifurcate their mind between graduate school life and everything else, that's quite hard for many of us to do. No matter what, my research lies somewhere in the back of my head. In short, your schedule is much more flexible as a PhD student, but as a result, you never truly take a break from your work.

While this may seem like a downer, remember that you should have passion for the research you work on (most of the time), so you should be excited to think up new experiments or different ways to consider that data you have collected. Even when I'm lying in bed about to fall asleep, I am sometimes ruminating about aspects of my experiment I could modify or what information I could do a literature search on to gain new insights. A PhD program is quite the commitment and rarely lives up to expectations – but it is well worth the time and effort you will spend for something that truly excites you.

Contributor

Andy greenspon.

How scientists are making the most of Reddit

Although she previously used X, PhD candidate Kelly Zimmerman thinks that Reddit provides a more engaging experience

Posted in: Students

One way for scientists to try their hand at science communication on Reddit is through ‘ask me anything’ (AMA) sessions, in which researchers answer users’ questions in their own time. Moderators pull in verified researchers to provide responses — even renowned theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking participated. (To schedule an AMA with r/askscience, you can e-mail the moderators).

With both AMAs and general discussion forums, there is an art to making sure that information is communicated effectively and succinctly.

We’re trying to keep it as scientific as possible, but in layman’s terms, so that non-scientists can understand cutting-edge science that’s coming out right now Kelly Zimmerman, who also moderates some science subreddits

Nathan Allen, a synthetic chemist based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and a former moderator at r/science, likens it to writing a persuasive e-mail. “On Reddit, you have got to convince the general public that this has some general interest to them, and you’ve got to develop it and build the message and make sure people stay on point,” he says. “You get a lot of practice writing concise explanations of complicated things that people who aren’t necessarily scientists are able to digest and understand.”

When using Reddit in any capacity, Zimmerman encourages scientists to make sure to read the rules before making a post or comment, and to mind their manners, just as they would on any other social-media platform. “Be polite,” she says. “Just because you’re an anonymous username doesn’t mean you should be rude to other people.”

Jennifer Cole, a biologist and anthropologist at Royal Holloway University of London, notes that using Reddit for scientific communication is not without its problems. Moderators do a lot of work behind the scenes and often face a torrent of abuse for trying to maintain standards, says Cole. And although using people’s real names can help with credibility, it can also make academics and experts targets for harassment and abuse. Although the site does not provide support for users who experience abuse, a spokesperson for Reddit noted that the platform has policies to prohibit both harassment and the sharing of personal or confidential information, and that these policies are enforced by the internal safety teams.

It can also be used to spread falsehoods. R/conspiracy has repeatedly posted misinformation about COVID-19 and vaccines. Climate deniers are also present on the platform, although a decade ago the science forum specifically banned climate change deniers. Asked about misinformation, the Reddit spokesperson said that because Reddit is governed by upvotes and downvotes, quality and accurate information tend to rise to the top.

Interviewees agree that Reddit is at its core a social media platform, and social media has the potential to be toxic. But when scientists engage, there’s also a lot of great scientific communication and debunking of misinformation.

Don’t be afraid to talk to the people. Those who are not scientists are just as curious as we are. There’s nothing special about being a scientist. We are like everybody else, and sometimes folks forget that. Kelly Zimmerman

Read the Full Article in Nature

NYU Center for Data Science

Harnessing Data’s Potential for the World

PhD in Data Science

An NRT-sponsored program in Data Science

• Areas & Faculty
• Admission Requirements
• Medical School Track
• NRT FUTURE Program

Advances in computational speed and data availability, and the development of novel data analysis methods, have birthed a new field: data science. This new field requires a new type of researcher and actor: the rigorously trained, cross-disciplinary, and ethically responsible data scientist. Launched in Fall 2017, the pioneering CDS PhD Data Science program seeks to produce such researchers who are fluent in the emerging field of data science, and to develop a native environment for their education and training. The CDS PhD Data Science program has rapidly received widespread recognition and is considered among the top and most selective data science doctoral programs in the world. It has recently been recognized by the NSF through an NRT training grant.

The CDS PhD program model rigorously trains data scientists of the future who (1) develop methodology and harness statistical tools to find answers to questions that transcend the boundaries of traditional academic disciplines; (2) clearly communicate to extract crisp questions from big, heterogeneous, uncertain data; (3) effectively translate fundamental research insights into data science practice in the sciences, medicine, industry, and government; and (4) are aware of the ethical implications of their work.

Our programmatic mission is to nurture this new generation of data scientists, by designing and building a data science environment where methodological innovations are developed and translated successfully to domain applications, both scientific and social. Our vision is that combining fundamental research on the principles of data science with translational projects involving domain experts creates a virtuous cycle: Advances in data science methodology transform the process of discovery in the sciences, and enable effective data-driven governance in the public sector. At the same time, the demands of real-world translational projects will catalyze the creation of new data science methodologies. An essential ingredient of such methodologies is that they embed ethics and responsibility by design.

These objectives will be achieved by a combination of an innovative core curriculum, a novel data assistantship mechanism that provides training of skills transfer through rotations and internships, and communication and entrepreneurship modules. Students will be exposed to a wider range of fields than in more standard PhD programs while working with our interdisciplinary faculty. In particular, we are proud to offer a medical track for students eager to explore data science as applied to healthcare or to develop novel theoretical models stemming from medical questions.

In short, the CDS PhD Data Science program prepares students to become leaders in data science research and prepares them for outstanding careers in academia or industry. Successful candidates are guaranteed financial support in the form of tuition and a competitive stipend in the fall and spring semesters for up to five years.* We invite you to learn more through our webpage or by contacting  [email protected] .

*The Ph.D. program also offers students the opportunity to pursue their study and research with Data Science faculty based at NYU Shanghai. With this opportunity, students generally complete their coursework in New York City before moving full-time to Shanghai for their research. For more information, please visit the NYU Shanghai Ph.D. page .

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How scientists are making the most of Reddit

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Hannah Docter-Loeb is a freelance writer in Washington DC.

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It has been almost 18 months since Elon Musk purchased Twitter, now known as X. Since the tech mogul took ownership, in October 2022, the number of daily active users of the platform’s mobile app has fallen by around 15%, and in April 2023 the company cut its workforce by 80%. Thousands of scientists are reducing the time they spend on the platform ( Nature 613 , 19–21; 2023 ). Some have gravitated towards newer social-media alternatives, such as Mastodon and Bluesky. But others are finding a home on a system that pre-dates Twitter: Reddit.

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DiscoverDataScience.org

Is a PhD in Data Science Worth It?

Created by aasif.faizal

The most advanced option you can find is a Data Science PhD, which is an intensive and long-term commitment from which you will graduate at the very top of your field.

The truth is, many who establish thriving careers in data science don’t hold PhDs, and no one would argue that they are necessary to have on the table as one considers their educational options. Estimates for the number of data science PhDs is around one third of all who attend graduate school for data science. For a certain type of person – one who is highly studious, with an aptitude for and interest in research – PhD programs can be excellent experience that will situate you for a highly specialized career.

If you’re asking yourself, “Do I need a PhD in Data Science?,” the answer is no. (For a more expansive answer to this question, you can take a look at our article here: “Do I need a PhD in Data Science?”)

But is a PhD in Data Science worth it for those who do decide to take it on? The answer, in short, is yes – at least, it can be. This article will explain the greatest rewards of taking on a doctorate program, with information about job options, Data Science PhD salary ranges, and job growth projections. To learn about all of those as well as survey the other degree options for data scientists, read on.

Advantages of a Data Science PhD

So if a PhD in Data Science isn’t necessary to building a high-earning career in big data, what are the advantages of taking on so many years of schooling? To put it simply, the answer is peerless expertise.

It’s true: one can hold just a master’s degree and still find excellent job opportunities in the data sciences, which is why master’s programs are the most popular path for those in the profession. However, it is unquestionable that a doctorate asserts a higher level of mastery and capability than even master’s degree holders have. If you apply for a job with a PhD on your resume, you’ll be instantly asserting that you are as knowledgeable as they come, which in the case of top-ranking (and top-earning) data science positions is exactly what companies are looking for.

Data Science PhD Programs: How They Work

If you think a doctoral degree in Data Science sounds like the right path for you, it’s worth learning about the specifics of a PhD program. Below is an overview of coursework, anticipated duration, and more.

Coursework and Duration

One of the primary differences between a data science PhD and a master’s program is that a doctorate program culminates in testing and a dissertation, while a master’s program does not. Courses in both programs typically include the following:

• Artificial intelligence
• Data management
• Data mining
• Data visualization
• Machine learning
• Software design

Data science PhDs are known for having an especially intensive orientation toward research, especially in the dissertation component of the work. This can extend the duration of a PhD program by several years. While master’s programs typically take two years if students attend them full-time, a PhD program typically adds two or three years of studying to that timeline.

While many who pursue data science PhDs argue that the insight gained from their extensive dissertation work has paid off in the long run, it’s important to ask yourself if you are going to enjoy making such a deep dive into your studies. If the answer is yes, that’s an excellent reason to proceed with your PhD degree. If not, a master’s program may be the more optimal path for you.

The testing process for data science PhDs is also rigorous, with multiple exams along the way to prove competencies in a variety of subjects. These include oral, written, and practical exams. Earning a PhD asserts by default that you have achieved the mastery needed to pass these tests, which is a powerful assertion of your skill and ability from the get-go.

Finding Your Area of Focus

Like with master’s programs, those pursuing data science degrees typically choose a particular area of focus while in school that will lead directly to their professional specialization. This means it’s crucial to get the lay of the land early so that you’re sure you’re picking a path you’re willing to commit to for a long time. (It’s always possible to acquire deeper insight or even pursue new specialties through certification programs, but it’s recommended to start with one focus that tracks with a degree concentration offered by your school.)

Data Science Salaries

The vast field of data science is proving to be an exceptionally fertile ground to grow a career, no matter what focus area you choose. Indeed, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics , the median annual pay for data scientists overall is an impressive $100,910 per year, well ahead of most other industries. This is an excellent reason to join this burgeoning field, and it’s been enough to motivate droves of people to pursue data science careers of their own.

If you’re impressed by these numbers, consider this: those statistics describe the overall field of data science, not just the jobs of those who hold PhDs. For these highly advanced professionals, the numbers get much higher. Take a look at the job titles in the next section to see the specific wages of high-ranking data science positions.

While the sudden rush of new candidates seeking data science positions may sound daunting, the job growth statistics for data scientists all but guarantee that high-quality jobs will be available in your area of focus. This is because of the exceptional projected growth rate of data science jobs, which the Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates to be an incredible 36% by 2031.

There are few other industries that offer as significant salaries across the board with so many new positions available.

So why are data scientists so in-demand, and why is the field growing so rapidly? The answer has everything to do with the rise of technology in all aspects of our lives, in particular the way it has transformed how we do business. The rate at which new data technology is evolving means constant adaptations within the world of big data to keep up with it. For example, recent leaps in the field of machine learning (ML) has greatly increased data capturing capacities, leading to a greater need for specialized data analysts who can help process the information quickly.

Careers for Data Science PhDs

One of the biggest questions for prospective data science PhD candidates is this: what will it lead to? Indeed, given the rigor of a data science PhD program, it’s important to think through the investment you’re making.

Below are some of the most common positions data scientist PhDs pursue, along with data scientist PhD salary ranges and more.

High Level Data Scientist

Data scientists often pursue more focused concentrations in the field, but their overall functions include collecting and categorizing data so that it can best be leveraged by organizations. Those who hold doctorate degrees in data science are often available for the highest levels of these jobs, which are roles responsible for important decision making functions, oftentimes communicating with executives and other heads of staff on the key insights they’ve acquired in their field.

As you might expect, these high-ranking data science roles earn significant amounts of money. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, data scientists earning in the 90th percentile of the field make an annual mean wage of $167,040.

Business Analyst

Business analysts, also often known as management analysts or management consultants, use advanced algorithms to analyze and interpret data that will later be used to guide business strategy. These can be in-house roles at large organizations or consultant positions who are contracted independently on a project basis. Those who excel at business are especially good candidates to pursue this career path.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, management analysts working at the top of their field (in the 90th percentile) earn an annual mean wage of $163,760.

Database Architects

Database architects play a huge role in a business’ data practices, serving as exactly what their name implies – architects who create the virtual structure in which data is stored and organized. It’s imperative that those who hold these roles be highly advanced in their field, as the strength of a business’ database is a crucial factor in the success of its overall operations.

Database architects are highly valued employees and are compensated accordingly. The Bureau of Labor Statistics reports that the top earning database architects in the US make a mean annual wage of $169,500.

Information Security Analysts

The field of cybersecurity is rapidly expanding as new technologies also introduce new types of cyberattacks to databases. Those with rigorous specialization in information security – such as what is conferred by a data science PhD – are ideal candidates to fill these roles. Indeed, companies are unlikely to hire anyone who is not seriously qualified to do this role, as this person will take responsibility for protecting the business’ most vital documents.

The highest earning (90th percentile) information security analysts are reported by the Bureau of Labor Statistics to make a mean annual salary of $165,920.

Other Data Science Degree Options

Now that you understand the benefits of a data science PhD program, it’s worth taking stock of the other data science degree and certification options that are available. Good news: all of these degree types have online options, many of which are part-time. This means you can attend school from anywhere, with any schedule.

Data Science Bachelor’s Degree

If you would like to pursue a data science PhD but don’t yet hold a bachelor’s degree in any subject, you will first need to complete a bachelor’s program. If you are in this position, it’s recommended to concentrate on data science during undergraduate school so that you can get a rich introduction to the field, even perhaps finding the area of focus where you’d like to plan your career.

It is possible to start a career in data science with just a bachelor’s degree, though most elect to pursue some level of graduate program, as you will enter the field at a higher level of responsibility, with pay to match. To learn more about bachelor’s in data science degree programs, take a look at our guide here .

Data Science Master’s Degree

A master’s in data science is the most popular path for those entering the field of big data. This degree will give you the expertise needed to find competitive jobs with significant responsibilities and the excellent salaries that draw so many to the data science profession. The coursework for a master’s degree is quite similar to a PhD, minus the intensive testing and the dissertation.

There are numerous fantastic Master’s in Data Science programs that can give you the experience and education needed to find a great position in the field. When choosing a master’s program, be sure it offers a concentration in your intended area of specialty. To take a look at the top online master’s programs available near you, visit our guide here .

Data Science Associates Degree

If you do not have a bachelor’s degree and would like to get your professional life started quickly, an associates degree program can give you the training you need to pursue some entry-level jobs in the world of data science. It’s important to note that these programs on their own are unlikely to give you the expertise needed for a high-earning data science career, but they can offer excellent exposure to the field and provide you with your first work experience.

To learn more about associates in data science degree programs, enjoy our guide here, which will give you all the information you need.

Data Science Certificate

An alternative to a long-term degree program, data science certificates can build a particular area of skill or expertise that can help situate you on a particular career path in data science. Some data science professionals who hold advanced degrees also decide to take on certificate programs to expand on their areas of knowledge or add to their list of specializations.

To learn more about data science certificate programs, visit our comprehensive guide here .

Data Science Bootcamps

Data science bootcamps are likely the fastest possible way to enter the data science profession. These courses – which usually have remote and in-person options – give you a literal crash course in a particular arena of data science, typically over a period of about twelve weeks. You will leave with a developed skill set that usually tracks with a particular type of entry-level job.

Like with most data science opportunities outside of graduate programs, these bootcamps are unlikely to set you up with a high-ranking data science careers, but they can be an excellent way to build your fluency in programming languages or other data science skills.

Data science bootcamps are booming, with plenty of options all over the country. Take a look at our guide here to find the program that is right for you.

Finding the Path That’s Right for You

If you’re feeling overwhelmed by the different opportunities available in the data sciences, don’t worry. While there are indeed many options that are suited to candidates with different skill sets, interests, and backgrounds, the good news is that most of these options are good, and are likely to significantly help you start your career.

For a more elaborate overview of the different program options in data science, take a look at our program guide here for a complete comparison.

• Related Programs

Two years since the CHIPS Act, the race heats up to train tens of thousands of workers

WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. — President Joe Biden signed the CHIPS and Science Act into law on Aug. 9, 2022, authorizing nearly $53 billion to rebuild the nation’s semiconductor industry. With chip factories breaking ground from Syracuse, New York , to Phoenix in the two years since, the focus has grown on how to fill them with the next generation of workers — like Robert Zhang.

The rising sophomore at Purdue University participated in the school’s Summer Training on Awareness and Readiness for Semiconductors (STARS) program, an eight-week intensive program that wrapped up its second summer last month with 100 students, up from around 70 initially.

The initiative, which doesn’t directly receive CHIPS funding, aims to train dozens of undergraduates each summer for domestic semiconductor roles, paying a $10,000 stipend funded by industry sponsors including Intel, GlobalFoundries and Texas Instruments.

STARS will “definitely prepare me and give me the good experience for future opportunities,” Zhang said during his last week of the boot camp, where trainees learn to work in “clean rooms” and labs to either design, manufacture or package their own chips. Hands-on experiences like these are rare outside of graduate programs and paid job opportunities.

The Purdue program is one of just two monthslong semiconductor initiatives for undergraduates on U.S. college campuses, and the jobs it aims to fill represent just a sliver of the domestic industry’s projected needs.

McKinsey & Co. researchers estimate the U.S. chip sector will still be short 59,000 workers by 2029 even if CHIPS Act-backed programs and funding deliver on their full potential — and up to 146,000 if they don’t. The domestic semiconductor manufacturing workforce has dropped from a peak of 714,500 in 2001 to 392,100 as of July, according to government data .

The Semiconductor Industry Association has already tallied more than $30 billion in CHIPS grants and over $25 billion in loans distributed so far, spanning projects from semiconductor giants like TSMC, Intel and Micron. In addition, the CHIPS Program Office, run out of the Commerce Department, has announced major commitments for research and development, including workforce skilling, with a $5 billion package unveiled in February.

The universities in this country are being asked to triple the number of graduates prepared for careers in semiconductors.

Mark Lundstrom, chief semiconductor officer, Purdue University

Bill Wiseman, a senior partner at McKinsey, sees little risk of the nation’s new chipmaking plants “lying fallow” due to worker shortages. But there is the potential for understaffing to drive up costs, he said, at a time when “operating a factory in the U.S. is already more expensive than it is in the place where most of this demand is coming from, which is Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Singapore.”

One way to shore up the domestic talent pool is to get prospective hires interested early, said Mark Lundstrom, Purdue’s chief semiconductor officer.

“The universities in this country are being asked to triple the number of graduates prepared for careers in semiconductors. So it’s going to take all of us working together to do that,” he said, adding that many existing industry internships come “too late” in students’ academic careers.

Letting undergrads perform parts of the semiconductor development process — like metal deposition, laser cutting and wafer measurement — before their junior year is key, Lundstrom said.

These experiences can help prepare them for jobs in Purdue’s backyard of West Lafayette, Indiana, where South Korean company SK Hynix is planning an advanced packaging facility expected to begin mass production in 2028 — right in time for many STARS participants to enter the workforce. About a quarter of the program’s inaugural cohort went on to secure internships with companies including Apple, Intel, Nvidia and TSMC, Purdue said.

But the industry will need many more job-training efforts to fill the projected talent gap, according to Sujai Shivakumar, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Universities and nonprofits, state and local governments, and private-sector employees all have a role to play, he said.

High-wage jobs at U.S. chipmaking plants can help prevent industry talent from going overseas, Shivakumar said, adding that domestic employers would need to offer child care benefits and flexible hours in addition to competitive pay to do so.

“If they don’t come to the United States, they’re going to other nations. Those countries are competing with us,” he said.

The McKinsey researchers proposed a broader range of approaches to fill the talent gap in the meantime, like tapping immigrant communities and military veterans as well as workers with transferable skills in adjacent industries, like pharmaceuticals or automotive manufacturing. The firm also recommends educational institution partnerships, even with high schools, that let prospective hires tour chipmaking facilities or shadow workers on the job.

“Just because you have the courses available, if the students don’t enroll in them, that’s not necessarily going to solve the problem,” said Taylor Roundtree, associate partner at McKinsey.

Lundstrom knows there’s a long way to go and Purdue plays only a small role, but the university wants to do its part. “We just felt we have a responsibility to help the nation address this challenge,” he said.

Brian Cheung is a business and data correspondent for NBC News.

Haley Messenger is a producer at NBC News covering business and the economy.

Department of Cognitive Science

Phd program.

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The Department of Cognitive Science PhD program’s primary goal is to train a new generation of cognitive scientists who can meld multiple existing disciplines into a new, genuinely integrated science of the mind/brain.

A secondary goal is to train graduates who are competitive for positions in traditional disciplinary departments at research universities. Because many of the most exciting research developments recognized within the related traditional disciplines arise through interdisciplinary research, the training in cognitive science offered by our department can promote a graduate’s attractiveness as a candidate for positions in a variety of departments.

For example, a student who is studying language processing in normal and brain-damaged subjects, and is trained in the methods of both cognitive neuropsychology and neuroimaging, with a solid foundation in theoretical linguistics and additional coursework in psychology or neuroscience, is potentially employable in a number of departments. A student with in-depth training in theoretical phonology, a solid background in computational and psychological approaches to phonological research, and ancillary training in other branches of linguistics is well positioned to conduct state-of-the-art research and teaching valuable for both a linguistics department and a cognitive science program.

The training we offer in cognitive science is highly interdisciplinary, strongly theoretically oriented, and integrated to an extent only possible within a department of cognitive science.

Our Training

The interdisciplinary training provided to all PhD students includes:

• Cognitive psychology and neuropsychology
• Computational approaches to cognition
• Generative linguistics
• Philosophy of mind
• Cognitive neuroscience
• Teaching experience in a range of areas within cognitive science
• Coursework introducing the full range of formal methods used throughout cognitive science
• Computational analysis
• Computer modeling
• Empirical psychology
• Empirical neuroscience
• Linguistic analysis
• Brain imaging
• Philosophical analysis
• In-depth interdisciplinary training in an area of expertise, with ancillary preparation for a faculty position in a traditional discipline.

Research Experience

In addition, PhD students are provided extensive experience integrating the theory and methods of diverse cognitive sub-disciplines through specially designed integrative courses and regular seminars involving the entire department.

Our program can offer such a breadth and depth of training because, unlike departments in the allied disciplines, in a department of cognitive science, 100% of graduate training can be focused on cognition. Integrated training across the spectrum of cognitive methods allows students to emerge from graduate school as professional cognitive scientists.

Please see the navigation menu for additional information on the PhD program in cognitive science, such as PhD requirements .

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Eleanor Chodroff, PhD 2017

The training I received in the Cognitive Science program at JHU has given me an invaluable foundation for my development as a linguist and cognitive scientist. In particular, the program has […]

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• Master’s vs PhD | A Complete Guide to the Differences

Master's vs PhD | A Complete Guide to the Differences

Published on November 27, 2020 by Lauren Thomas . Revised on May 10, 2024.

The two most common types of graduate degrees are master’s and doctoral degrees:

• A master’s is a 1–2 year degree that can prepare you for a multitude of careers.
• A PhD, or doctoral degree, takes 3–7 years to complete (depending on the country) and prepares you for a career in academic research.

A master’s is also the necessary first step to a PhD. In the US, the master’s is built into PhD programs, while in most other countries, a separate master’s degree is required before applying for PhDs.

Master’s are far more common than PhDs. In the US, 24 million people have master’s or professional degrees, whereas only 4.5 million have doctorates.

Table of contents

Master’s vs phd at a glance, which is right for you, length of time required, career prospects, costs and salaries, application process, other interesting articles, frequently asked questions about master's and phd degrees.

The table below shows the key differences between the two.

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A PhD is right for you if:

• Your goal is to become a professor at a university or some other type of professional researcher.
• You love research and are passionate about discovering the answer to a particular question.
• You are willing to spend years pursuing your research even if you have to put up with a lot of dead ends and roadblocks.

A master’s degree is the better choice if any of the following apply:

• You want to continue studies in your field, but you’re not committed to a career as a professional researcher.
• You want to develop professional skills for a specific career.
• You are willing to pay a higher upfront cost if it means finishing with your degree (and thus being able to work) much faster.
• You want the option to study part-time while working.

The length of time required to complete a PhD or master’s degree varies. Unsurprisingly, PhDs take much longer, usually between 3–7 years. Master’s degrees are usually only 1–2 years.

Length of a master’s

Master’s degrees are usually 2 years, although 1-year master’s degrees also exist, mainly in the UK.

Most of the degree consists of classes and coursework, although many master’s programs include an intensive, semester-long master’s thesis or capstone project in which students bring together all they’ve learned to produce an original piece of work.

Length of a PhD

In the US, a PhD usually takes between 5 and 7 years to complete. The first 2 years are spent on coursework. Students, even those who choose to leave without finishing the program, usually receive a master’s degree at this point.

The next 3–5 years are spent preparing a dissertation —a lengthy piece of writing based on independent research, which aims to make a significant original contribution to one’s field.

Master’s degrees tend to prepare you for a career outside of academia, while PhDs are designed to lead to a career in research.

Careers for master’s graduates

There are two types of master’s degrees: terminal and research-intensive. The career prospects are different for each.

Terminal master’s degrees are intended to prepare students for careers outside of academia. Some degrees, known as professional degrees, specifically prepare students for particular professions; these include the Master of Public Policy (MPP), Master of Business Administration (MBA), Doctor of Physical Therapy (DPT), Master of Fine Arts (MFA), and Master of Public Health (MPH) degrees.

Other master’s degrees, usually Master of Arts (MA) or Master of Sciences (MS or MSc) degrees, do not necessarily lead to a specific career, but are intended to be a final degree. Examples include an MS in Communications or MS in Data Analytics.

In research-intensive master’s programs, students take coursework intended to prepare them for writing an original piece of research known as the master’s thesis . Such programs are usually intended to prepare for further study in a doctoral program.

Careers for PhD graduates

As research degrees, PhDs are usually intended to lead to an academic career. A PhD can be thought of like an apprenticeship, where students learn from professional researchers (academics) how to produce their own research.

Most students aspire to become a university professor upon the completion of their degree. However, careers in academia are highly competitive, and the skills learned in a doctoral program often lend themselves well to other types of careers.

Some graduates who find they prefer teaching to producing research go on to be teachers at liberal arts colleges or even secondary schools. Others work in research-intensive careers in the government, private sector, or at think tanks.

Below are a few examples of specific fields and non-academic careers that are common destinations of graduates of those fields.

• Computer Science
• Lab Sciences

Many government jobs, including economists at a country’s central bank, are research-intensive and require a PhD. Think tanks also hire economists to carry out independent research.

In the private sector, economic consulting and technology firms frequently hire PhDs to solve real-world problems that require complex mathematical modeling.

Graduate students from the humanities are sometimes hired by museums, who can make use of their research and writing skills to curate exhibits and run public outreach.

Humanities PhDs are often well-suited to research and grant-writing roles at nonprofits. Since so much of research is funded by grants, PhD students often gain a lot of experience applying for them, which is a useful skill in the nonprofit sector.

There are a wide range of non-academic research jobs for lab scientists with doctorates in subjects like chemistry, biology, ecology and physics.

Many PhD graduates are hired by pharmaceutical companies that need to perform research to create and test their products. Government agencies, such as the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), also hire lab scientists to work on research projects.

Job prospects after graduation vary widely based on the field. In fields like management, computer science, statistics, and economics, there’s little underemployment—even graduates from less well-known programs can easily find jobs that pay well and use the skills they’ve gained from the PhD.

However, in other fields, particularly in the humanities, many PhD graduates have difficulty in the job market. Unfortunately, there are far more PhD graduates than assistant professor roles, so many instead take on part-time and low-paid roles as adjunct instructors. Even non-academic careers can sometimes be difficult for PhDs to move into, as they may be seen as “overqualified”  or as lacking in relevant professional experience.

Because career options post-PhD vary so much, you should take the time to figure out what the career prospects are in your field. Doctoral programs often have detailed “placement” records online in which they list the career outcomes of their graduates immediately upon leaving the program. If you can’t find these records, contact the program and ask for them—placement information should play an important role in your choice of PhD program.

Although PhDs take far longer to complete, students often receive a living stipend in exchange for being a teaching or research assistant. Master’s degrees are shorter but less likely to be funded.

Both master’s degrees and PhDs lead to increased salaries upon graduation. While PhDs usually earn a bit more than those with a master’s degree, in some fields, the wages are identical, meaning that no financial benefit is gained from going on to a PhD.

Cost of a master’s

The upfront cost of a master’s degree is usually higher than a doctoral degree due to the lower amount of financial aid available. However, increased salaries also arrive faster than with a doctoral degree, because people graduate much earlier from a master’s program.

Some master’s students do receive stipends for their degrees, usually as compensation for being a teaching or research assistant. In addition, many people complete master’s degrees part time while working full-time, which allows them to fund their living costs as well as tuition.

The cost varies significantly by school and program. Public schools are usually cheaper than private ones. Some master’s degrees, such as MBAs, are notoriously expensive, but also result in much higher wages afterwards that make up for the high cost.

The master’s wage premium , or the extra amount that someone with a master’s degree makes than someone with just a high school diploma, is 23% on average. Many universities provide detailed statistics on the career and salary outcomes of their students. If they do not have this online, you should feel free to contact an administrator of the program and ask.

Cost of a PhD

PhDs, particularly outside the humanities, are usually (though not always) funded, meaning that tuition fees are fully waived and students receive a small living stipend. During the last 3–5 years of a PhD, after finishing their coursework (and sometimes before), students are usually expected to work as graduate instructors or research assistants in exchange for the stipend.

Sometimes students can apply for a fellowship (such as the National Science Foundation Graduate Research Program in the United States) that relieves them of any obligations to be a teaching or research assistant. Doctoral programs in the US tend to be better funded than in the rest of the world.

Sometimes, PhD degrees can be completed part-time, but this is rare. Students are usually expected to devote at least 40 hours a week to their research and work as teaching or research assistants.

The main cost of doctoral programs comes in the form of opportunity cost—all the years that students could be working a regular, full-time job, which usually pays much better than a graduate school stipend.

The average wage premium for PhDs is 26%, which is not much higher than the master’s degree premium.

In the US, the application process is similar for master’s and PhD programs. Both will generally ask for:

• At least one application essay, often called a personal statement or statement of purpose .
• Letters of recommendation .
• A resume or CV .
• Transcripts.
• Writing samples.

Applications for both types of programs also often require a standardized test. PhDs usually require the Graduate Record Examination (GRE), which tries to measure verbal reasoning, quantitative, critical thinking , and analytical writing skills. Many master’s programs require this test as well.

Applying for a master’s

Master’s degrees programs will often ask you to respond to specific essay prompts that may ask you to reflect upon not just your academic background, but also your personal character and future career ambitions.

Northwestern University’s Kellogg Business School requires Master’s of Business Administration (MBA) applicants write two essays, one about a recent time they demonstrated leadership and the second about their personal values.

Who you should ask for your letters of recommendation varies by program. If you are applying to a research-intensive master’s program, then you should choose former professors or research supervisors. For other programs, particularly business school, current work supervisors may be a better choice.

Some professional master’s programs require a specific test. For example, to apply to law school, you must take the Law School Admissions Test, or LSAT. For business school, you must take either the GRE or the Graduate Management Admissions Test (GMAT).

Applying for a PhD

When applying for a PhD, your resume should focus more on your research background—you should especially emphasize any publications you’ve authored or presentations that you’ve given.

Similarly, your statement of purpose should discuss research that you’ve participated in, whether as an assistant or the lead author. You should detail what exactly you did in projects you’ve contributed to, whether that’s conducting a literature review, coding regressions, or writing an entire article.

Your letters of recommendations should be from former professors or supervisors who can speak to your abilities and potential as a researcher. A good rule of thumb is to avoid asking for recommendations from anyone who does not themselves have a PhD.

If you want to know more about college essays , academic writing , and AI tools , make sure to check out some of our other language articles with explanations, examples, and quizzes.

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A master’s is a 1- or 2-year graduate degree that can prepare you for a variety of careers.

All master’s involve graduate-level coursework. Some are research-intensive and intend to prepare students for further study in a PhD; these usually require their students to write a master’s thesis . Others focus on professional training for a specific career.

A PhD, which is short for philosophiae doctor (doctor of philosophy in Latin), is the highest university degree that can be obtained. In a PhD, students spend 3–5 years writing a dissertation , which aims to make a significant, original contribution to current knowledge.

A PhD is intended to prepare students for a career as a researcher, whether that be in academia, the public sector, or the private sector.

This depends on the country. In the United States, you can generally go directly to a PhD  with only a bachelor’s degree, as a master’s program is included as part of the doctoral program.

Elsewhere, you generally need to graduate from a research-intensive master’s degree before continuing to the PhD.

This varies by country. In the United States, PhDs usually take between 5–7 years: 2 years of coursework followed by 3–5 years of independent research work to produce a dissertation.

In the rest of the world, students normally have a master’s degree before beginning the PhD, so they proceed directly to the research stage and complete a PhD in 3–5 years.

A master’s degree usually has a higher upfront cost, but it also allows you to start earning a higher salary more quickly. The exact cost depends on the country and the school: private universities usually cost more than public ones, and European degrees usually cost less than North American ones. There are limited possibilities for financial aid.

PhDs often waive tuition fees and offer a living stipend in exchange for a teaching or research assistantship. However, they take many years to complete, during which time you earn very little.

In the US, the graduate school application process is similar whether you’re applying for a master’s or a PhD . Both require letters of recommendation , a statement of purpose or personal statement , a resume or CV , and transcripts. Programs in the US and Canada usually also require a certain type of standardized test—often the GRE.

Outside the US, PhD programs usually also require applicants to write a research proposal , because students are expected to begin dissertation research in the first year of their PhD.

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• Jul 22, 2022
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Is a PhD Worth It? The Pros and Cons of Getting a Doctorate

To get a PhD or not to get a PhD? That is the question.

Valerie David

Lifestyle and Career Expert

Reviewed by Hayley Ramsey

Entering the job market for the first time can be a stressful experience, especially if you don't feel completely prepared. When deciding how to take those first steps toward your ultimate career , and how to give yourself a chance at the best jobs, you may find yourself asking: “Should I do a PhD?”.

While academics looking forward to a life of learning may consider this a no-brainer, there are important factors for everyone to consider. Finances, job prospects and quality of life issues can greatly affect the success of furthering your education.

To help you decide if the time and effort of a PhD is worth it, here are the major benefits and disadvantages of getting that doctorate.

After four or more years of intellectual pursuits, adding a PhD may seem like overkill. Before you make your choice, let's look at all the benefits that are exclusive to earning the most advanced degree.

1. You can contribute new knowledge to the world

Embarking on a PhD programme means delving into your preferred subject in a much deeper way than you have in any of your previous studies. The beauty of this advanced degree is that it allows you to sail in uncharted waters. Your goal is to find new information, draw new conclusions and, hopefully, make a significant contribution to your field.

Your intensive research, travel, collaboration and study will lead you on an unpredictable path to telling a story that no one has heard before. For some students, this pursuit of knowledge and discovery is enough to make all the hard work of earning a PhD worth it.

2. You'll have access to more prestigious jobs

One of the key benefits of a PhD is that it opens doors to careers at the highest levels. This can include leadership positions in science and engineering, government roles in economics and political science, and prestigious teaching posts for English and arts majors. Even if an advanced degree isn't required for the job you want, that PhD can give you an extra air of authority in your field and an edge over other candidates.

Another obvious upside to continuing your postgraduate studies is that landing these powerful positions can lead to large financial rewards. Some areas of study, like medicine and the law, tend to be more lucrative, but it can also depend on the type of job. For example, a university professor or researcher post can pay well for a wide variety of disciplines. Check out sites like the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the National Careers Service to investigate potential salaries.

3. Employers look for candidates with your superior writing skills

A study arranged by the National Commission on Writing discovered that blue-chip businesses (long-standing companies with stable stock growth) are spending more than $3 billion a year on remedial writing course for current employees. This includes staff with undergraduate degrees.

So, when a hiring manager peruses your résumé and sees that you've earned a PhD, they'll know immediately that you've spent years honing your skills at compiling research, organizing mountains of data and writing about your results in a cohesive and persuasive way. This will clearly set you apart from your competition, while landing your dream job will prove that pursuing that advanced degree was worth it.

4. You'll improve on all your soft skills

While pursuing your undergraduate degree, you likely noticed that you were learning more than just the subject matter taught in each class. Completing your studies also required time management skills , focus and problem solving .

Getting a doctorate degree requires even more of the soft skills that employers look for in applicants . Your intensive study and finished thesis should lead to improvements in your problem solving, critical thinking , patience and adaptability . These desirable skills won't just help you land a job but also excel in whatever career you choose to pursue .

5. You'll collect an extensive network of professional colleagues

When weighing the pros and cons of earning a PhD, consider all the professional contacts you'll make during the course of your studies. Working closely with professors, department heads, experts in your field, as well as fellow researchers, helps you develop an important resource. This network of colleagues can provide continual assistance with references, job leads, career advice and collaboration.

6. You can wait for a more favorable job market

Job prospects may not look that promising when you've completed your undergraduate degree, or even after you've been in the workforce for a few years. While there's no guarantee things will improve after a delay, some students may appreciate the benefit of a steady graduate assistant salary while they work on enhancing their résumé with a doctorate.

If you couldn't get a good internship during or after your undergrad studies, the PhD work also gives you the time to build that professional network . These contacts could prove to be the key to breaking into a specialized or highly competitive field.

You may still be thinking about all that time and commitment and wondering, “Is a PhD worth it?”. While there are always positive results from improving your education, there are some downsides to getting your doctorate.

1. It's expensive

This is a substantial factor for many students when weighing the merits of pursuing a PhD versus entering the job market right away. If you already have student loans , continuing your education will just increase your burden and add substantial pressure when you eventually begin your job search.

If cost is a concern, investigate graduate assistant jobs that help with expenses. Some programmes offer tuition assistance in return for teaching or research work. For those who already work full time and are hoping a PhD will help them advance in their career, consider keeping that job and pursuing your studies on a part-time basis.

2. Getting a PhD can be a lonely experience

Despite your interactions with professors and other students, pursuing a doctoral degree is ultimately a solitary pursuit. Your thesis topic is unique to you, and you'll spend a lot of time alone doing research and writing. Your social life can suffer, especially if you're also working in addition to your studies.

Career experts often talk about the necessity of work-life balance for physical and mental health, and this is just as important for PhD students as anyone else. It may take you a little longer to complete your degree, but it's worth taking the time to visit family and hang out with your friends. These positive interactions can help you stay motivated through the most tedious parts of your work.

3. You'll experience extreme stress and frustration

Pursuing a PhD may seem like a noble and interesting endeavor, and extended life as a student can appear more attractive than wading into the job market. You must be aware, however, that getting a doctorate can be a very stressful and frustrating experience.

A topic that seemed intriguing at first may not live up to years of scrutiny, causing boredom at best or requiring a complete thesis change at worst. Not all programmes are well-run, either, and you may have a supervisor who is too critical, offers poor advice or is just unavailable and unhelpful.

The difficulties of a PhD programme lead to rather substantial dropout rates. In the US alone, only 57% of PhD students obtained their degree within a decade of enrolling. If you want to be in the successful half of those stats, take extra time to review your choice of supervisor and topic focus. Ask every professor you have for advice on making the right decisions and talk with current graduate students to see what their experience has been.

4. There may be limited job openings

While getting a PhD can qualify you for better and higher-paying jobs , it can also put you in a position where you're competing for an extremely limited number of job openings. This is especially true of university jobs, where the number of advanced degree graduates far outpaces the need for full-time instructors, researchers and administrators.

Earning your PhD with a very obscure thesis in a niche speciality can also limit your options. When there are only a handful of jobs that suit your expertise, and they're already occupied, it can make you feel that your doctorate was a waste of time. Consider the job market before you make decisions about getting another degree. If you're determined to study in a niche area, think ahead of time about related fields or industries where your knowledge and skills will also prove useful to employers.

5. There may be little to no financial reward

While most studies concur that having a PhD increases your income potential substantially over the lifetime of your career, it's not a guarantee of job security or a financial windfall. A study by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) found that 5 years after earning their doctorates , 45% of grads in Germany were still on temporary contracts and 13% ended up in lowly occupations.

Other European countries, including Slovakia, Belgium and Spain, had similar results. In the US, in fields like engineering, the difference in pay scales between employees with a master's degree and a PhD was a mere 7%. When that small bump in salary is weighed against the amount of debt taken on in order to get your degree, you may decide it's not worth it.

6. You could lose out on valuable job experience

New forms of technology continue to change how organizations operate, and those changes can happen fast. If you've already spent several years in school, toiling away in solitary study of obscure subjects can cause you to fall further behind in learning the skills you'll actually need for a future career.

Before you invest in getting a PhD, research your chosen field and learn which type of degree will give you the most value. Many scientific, financial and computing careers rely more on skills acquired on the job, rather than in coursework that can quickly become outdated.

Questions to ask yourself

You’ve listed out the pros and cons, but that still may not be enough to help make your decision. When it comes to a life-altering change like getting a doctorate, it’s okay to take enough time to ask yourself specific questions to ensure you’re making the right move. Consider asking yourself the following:

• Why do I want to get a PhD?
• Do I have the pre-requisites to move forward to a PhD?
• What are my strengths and limitations?
• Am I financially prepared?
• Am I mentally prepared?
• How will this affect my relationship with my family or friends?
• Where will I study?
• What am I trying to achieve?
• What jobs will be available to me after I get my PhD?
• Are there other options or avenues to consider?

Unfortunately, you may not have the answer to every one of these questions, because let’s face it, you don’t know what you don’t know. You might not know how it will affect your relationship with family or friends, but why not ask them? Reach out to those closest to you and see how you pursuing this degree could trickle down to them and allow that to play into your decision. Evaluate the answers to these questions and use it to help you make an educated decision on your future moving forward.

The best PhD degrees

If you’ve weighed out the pros and cons, asked all the important questions, and now you’re set on getting your PhD, congratulations! To help you along the way, let’s look at a list of the most valuable PhD programs to start you on your way to this degree.

• Criminal Justice
• Engineering
• Cybersecurity
• Business Administration

These fields are rapidly growing and are among the highest-paying doctorate degrees in 2022 , so they might be worth considering as you start your journey.

Key takeaways

Pursuing your PhD requires an incredible amount of commitment, and it's important to take the necessary time to make the decision. As you’re evaluating a doctorate degree, remember the following:

• Evaluate the pros and cons list right from the beginning to ensure you’re weighing out both sides of the coin.
• Ask yourself the necessary questions. A doctorate degree commitment can affect more than just you, so be sure you’re factoring that into your decision.
• Review specifically which PhD would be best for you and your field progression.
• Research your chosen field carefully and evaluate the job market before you finalize your degree choice.
• Once you’ve selected your degree, stay focused and stay driven. It’s going to be a hard few years, but it will be worth the work!

Who knows, this may prompt you to move on to postgraduate study — never stop achieving!

Have you decided to pursue your PhD, or are you still considering your options? Join us in the comments below and let us know what’s stopping or encouraging you from getting a PhD.

Originally published on July 24, 2019. Updated by Shalie Reich.

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I am currently debating whether to leave my PhD program- any advice?

TL;DR : Young graduate student in his first year of a PhD program who has lost a passion for the academic world. Seriously considering quitting but don't know what to do. Science background.

My background I'm 21-25, with a Science background, B.Sc in Physics. Took a year off between Undergrad and Grad school and worked full time as a research scientist. Theoretical background (most of my work has consisted of modelling). Strong quantitative and computer skills. Excel in presentation/project focused environments.

General Information I am currently finishing the second semester of my first year in a PhD program at a top tier US school in an engineering program. I have a full scholarship that pays for all of my tuition and a living stipend (typical graduate student stipend ~$1800 a month after taxes, so quite enough to live off of). I'm not a US citizen (from Canada), so I'm here on a student VISA, so if I decide to stop I have 2 weeks to leave the country. I cannot hold any other employment in the US while here on my VISA. My PhD consists of ~1.5 years of combined coursework and research, followed by a qualifier at the end of that period (research based), then into your thesis (doesn't have to be related to what your qualifier research was on).

Current Academic Situation I came first semester ready to start a new life...(first time moving away from home- did my undergrad where I was born). I did very well first semester (3.9/4.0 GPA) and research was on track (mostly lit. review). By the end of first semester however, I noticed that I was losing interest very quickly in both my coursework and research - it started to become very hard to get myself through to work on a daily basis. Went home Christmas break for a few weeks and came back to start my second semester and immediately noticed a big change. I started to struggle in my classes and fall behind on research. It wasn't that the material was too difficult, I just had no motivation to do it. No excuses here - just didn't really want to do it so I didn't. I reached the end of the semester and realized just how far behind I was. I am likely going to hit ~C average this semester (A last) and am drastically behind on research. I had weekly-biweekly meetings with my supervisor all semester, but I sort of hid just how bad things were going. Had a long meeting last week where I basically came clean on everything (said I was struggling in classes, behind on research) and the supervisor was very supportive. The supervisor believed in my potential and suggested I speak to a school counsellor and emphasized that this kind of thing was common for doctoral students.

Personal situation/feelings I come from a family where both my parents have PhDs. Although my parents have always been supportive and open to my life, I feel as though they would be very disappointed if I quit and this pressure is very real to me. I have tried to have the conversation with them and their attitude is mostly: "just put your head down and work through it, it's just a phase". Quite frankly most people seem to think it's a "phase" when I tell them. Outside of school my life is great. I'm not unhappy or depressed, I have hobbies, friends, I work out - it's just school that makes me feel this way. I just don't like the academic world at all any more. I HATE classes (always have) and where in the past research has been the saving grace keeping me interested in school, it now is losing a lot of it's appeal.

Basically, I feel no passion or drive for what I am doing any more. This for me is a huge problem. I'm not the kind of person who lacks passion in life. Quite the opposite in fact. Right now I have no such drive for school. I have a long term long distance relationship with someone from home that is incredibly happy and stable. They visited here many times since I moved and we are doing great. I would be lying if I said it wasn't a factor in me wanting to quit. (Having my partner move here is a lot more complicated). The relationship has been incredibly supportive and is very aware of my current situation and has maintained a very neutral stance, trying to play devils advocate wherever possible and trying to make sure it doesn't influence the decision. I should state that I am pretty sure if I had to choose between school and the relationship, I would choose the relationship immediately with no regrets.

I have just reached a point where I find myself doing just about anything else but school work. I'll get groceries, clean the apartment, watch TV etc... before doing any work. I'm trying to stick around for a couple of months for the summer (to see if not having classes changes anything) but since talking to my supervisor I'm already having doubts about even that. At this point, I feel like moving home and getting any job would make me happier than what I am doing.

Financial situation I have a few thousand dollars in the bank (enough to get me home /move out etc...) and zero debt. If I move back home, I can likely live with my parents for the first month to get back, then I'd be looking for a job and moving in with my partner. I realize having no debt puts me ahead of a lot of people and I'm not particularly concerned about the situation financially - I'm very lucky to have what I have and am aware of this.

So what's the deal? I know I have this amazing opportunity. I'm at a top tier school on a full scholarship. I wake up every day and get to work with the top minds in my field doing important research. I'm doing something a very small % of the population ever gets a chance at and yet still I have no motivation to do it. I'm not sure if I'm doing it for me any more, or I'm doing it so I don't let down other people in my life. My parents, mentors, friends, all the people who keep telling me how amazing this opportunity is. The more I look back, the more I realize that Grad school was what I did because I basically just didn't have another plan.

What would I like to do I'd love to find a job. I don't need to make a lot of money to be happy - I live off of 22k a year right now and am perfectly comfortable. Money isn't a major motivator for me. Working in the financial sector, doing quantitative risk analysis, banking, DoD, just about anything sounds more appealing than school to me. I know I'm smart and I've got a strong quantitative background combined with very good personal skills. I'm great with people and one of the things I HATE about the academic world is how under-used that part of my skill set feels.

I have no idea what to do. I want to quit, but I haven't. Maybe I shouldn't? I've been looking into options, but quite frankly I'd much prefer to have some kind of plan before quitting - at the very least this pays my living right now. I'd love advice from anyone. Someone who's been in this situation, someone who hasn't It doesn't matter.

I know that what I am doing does not make me happy. But I don't know what will. Please help.

Update two years later

I chose to leave school, and came home. My relationship fell apart but I found a decent job working for a tech startup and did that for about 1.5 years - I saved some money and took some time off and now I'm doing full time analytics consulting work for a website - It's working out well so far and I enjoy the freedom of it (work from home) etc. Though I do often wonder about what would have happened if I stayed, I don't regret it.

• graduate-school

• You mentioned (multiple times) how you hated classes in general - is it the same with the research you're doing? Because if thats the case, and a change of the area of research wouldn't affect your decision, then its certainly clear than you didn't really want Grad school. But if its just the coursework, I'll suggest that you bear it out, as its finite and not very important in the long run... –  TCSGrad Commented May 5, 2013 at 4:29
• 1 Questions should be written so that the questions and the answers they generate are useful to a broader community. The situation you are asking about is important, but your personal details might cloud the answer. –  Ben Norris Commented May 5, 2013 at 10:47
• 2 While the details of this question are not entirely generalizable, I think the overall situation is one a number of people are in, and so far all the answers have addressed the general situation rather than the specifics. –  Anonymous Mathematician Commented May 5, 2013 at 17:09
• 1 I answered a similar question: How should I deal with discouragement as a graduate student? –  Theresa Liao Commented May 7, 2013 at 22:08

15 Answers 15

Here is my general advice for graduate students who are thinking about quitting graduate school (and I'll sprinkle in some specific advice):

At one point or another, almost every graduate student wants to quit, so you're not alone . The fact that you're not alone doesn't solve any problems, but it may give you some peace of mind. The advice from your supportive advisor to seek out counseling is a very, very good one.

The decision to get a graduate degree is personal and different for everyone, but regardless it is a long-term decision that will probably have a significant effect on your future. The five or six years of your life spent doing it could open up many doors; that is not to say that other opportunities aren't worth considering. You really do have to do what is best for yourself, in the end.

Getting a PhD really does require passion (and in your case this is weaning right now). You can push through a pretty good chunk of time without it, but if you don't find the passion, it's going to be a long haul. If you were passionate and lost that, try to figure out what it was that you were passionate about before, and see if you can get back in the groove. One of my favorite Richard Feynman stories is about how he rebounded from a slump because he watched a spinning plate in the dining hall .

If you hate classes, make it a priority to finish them up quickly so you can concentrate on the research! Classes, while important, are not why you are in graduate school. A friend's advisor told his students that he would be upset if they were getting A+'s, meaning that they weren't spending enough time on research.

You can take time off from graduate school and come back later. This is hard to do (particularly if you have to leave the country), and you can't necessarily expect the same financial support when you return. But, you can do it, and if you need time off, take it. My suggestion for you if you are still on the fence about staying in grad school is to look at an internship somewhere for the summer where you are away from school and can clear your head. Then come back next semester.

All of my advice is kind of ignoring what may be your most important statement:

I want to quit, but I haven't.

If you've thought through all the reasons why you want to quit, and this is the answer, then you should take time off -- 'quit' is a harsh word, and not really a necessary one (see point 5). Your point is well taken that you shouldn't try to stick it out for anyone but yourself -- we all go through worries about disappointing others, but most people want you to be happy, and they will understand. You will almost certainly find a big weight lifted from your shoulders, and not extra pressure from those around you. Yes, having a plan before moving on is always a good idea, but I've been in a number of places in my life where I decided to do something before having a definite plan, and it all worked out in the end. Good luck!

• 14 To the contrary, I find the Feynman example misleading. I know quite a lot of people who are very passionate about some scientific stuff, but the discouragement comes from misalignment of it and topics or approaches at their PhDs. –  Piotr Migdal Commented Jun 19, 2013 at 11:16
• 1 @PiotrMigdal what you say is 100% right. –  Nafaa Boutefer Commented Sep 29, 2013 at 22:25
• 1 Best advise I got: Get over the stressful moment (finals, ...), perhaps wait until some break is (almost) over before thinking it though, and consider your situation calmly. –  vonbrand Commented Feb 28, 2016 at 1:40
• Love the Feynman anecdote! –  Joshua Wolff Commented May 21, 2020 at 3:01

Whatever you decide to do, just keep in mind that leaving a Ph.D. program because it's just not right for you does not represent any kind of failure on your part. I know plenty of people who didn't leave graduate school because they thought quitting would mean admitting that they couldn't hack it; this simply isn't true , and if your only reason for staying in school is that you don't want to disappoint your peers, parents, or advisor, then you should think long and hard about taking some time off from school and reassessing what you want to do.

Finish what you started.

I dropped out of a prestigious program 6 years ago, with much of the same reasoning:

• "The degree is just a piece of paper anyway"
• "If I want to learn things I can just learn them on my own"
• "What's the point? To spend that many years just to get a qualification to impress other people. I don't care about money, and if I want a job I can get a job now." (I was making $80/hour on contract work at the time.)
• "I'm planning on starting my own business"

But here I am, 6 years later, applying for grad school to give it another go.

Here are my reasons for going back: (I welcome people to correct me if I'm wrong about any of these!)

• Most full time employment is mindblowingly dull. As a student you don't fully appreciate this.
• A PhD is not very different from a job in the sense that you have to show up and do some work, most of which you don't necessarily want to do. The difference is, with a PhD you get something at the end, but with a job there is just endless tedium. Also with a graduate degree you get to use your brain a bit more.
• Your job prospects will be severely diminished, and your salary will be lower. It is fairly difficult to get a good research job without a graduate degree, and most opportunities outside of grunt work will be closed to you.
• In academia, you're used to working with smart people and having intelligent discussions, etc. If you leave and enter typical workforce, that goes away. There will always be a significant gap in academic potential between you and your colleagues and this will bother you because it means you are not hitting your potential and are effectively being under-utilized and under-paid.
• Feeling underutilized and unchallenged is very very bad. You will hate your job and therefore hate your life, and it all goes downhill from there..
• Everybody wants money. Most people that want money really badly, have at some point in their lives said "Nah, I don't care about money, money doesn't make you happy." Being broke doesn't make you happy either.
• The fact that you quit will forever haunt you. No amount of "Bill gates dropped out too" or "I'm too independent to need this" will make you feel better when you see your former classmates graduate with PhDs while you have to live with the fact that you started but gave up.
• In the workforce it doesn't always matter how smart you are. Most places I've interviewed have trouble hiding how impressed they were, and several have told me directly that I'm the best candidate they've ever seen. I always breezed through the most difficult interview questions and I've gotten offers from Google, Facebook, Amazon, Goldman Sachs, etc. BUT at the end of the day all of the jobs they offered were boring menial tasks. You could argue that it's possible to start with a menial job and then work your way up, but as I mentioned before, a PhD is also a job, why not just finish that?

Also, regarding your note on quantitative finance, please be very aware that the world of quantitative finance is very competitive and most places won't consider you if you don't have a PhD. I know because I tried several times to get a job doing quant work, but every firm I spoke with only offered back-end jobs doing menial SQL work. Your mileage may vary, but be warned that most people don't care about how good you think your quantitative skills are. (One fairly famous hedge fund manager told me very directly "everyone thinks they're going to be great at a new skill, so why would anyone risk their money on an unknown, unproven entity?".)

• 1 I just noticed this was asked in May 2013 and not May 2014, oops! Ah well. –  CaptainCodeman Commented Jun 5, 2014 at 14:28
• 3 I concur, the possibility of being underutilized and unchallenged in typical workplace is one major reason for me to strive to stay in academia. Working at big names like "Google, Facebook, Amazon, Goldman Sachs, etc." also boils down to boring menial tasks? Can you please elaborate on this? I don't have any industrial experience. –  sinoTrinity Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 3:46
• 8 @sinoTrinity What I did not know when I left uni, was that there is a huge division in the real world between "developers that come up with ideas that improve the business", (aka "researchers") and "developers that should do as they're told" (aka "programmers", "SQL developers", "engineers", ...) Generally speaking, most software jobs fall into the second category. e.g. I got a job at Goldman Sachs, and I thought I would be working on financial models, but it turned out they wanted me to write programs to draw bar charts showing their profit. Same with Google, they just wanted a mobile dev. –  CaptainCodeman Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 7:13
• 1 ok, but don't you acknowledge that you could have found a different team in Google that does something more interesting, or at Goldman. For example, you could have been doing risk analysis at Sachs or Search optmization at Google with a Masters. –  codekitty Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 18:55
• One thing I do want to add, however, is that getting a PhD in Japan and Korea is restrictive for prospects whereas not having a degree is not. (Just a point to consider for potential readers from those countries) –  virmaior Commented Sep 12, 2015 at 8:14

I'm surprised that both the question and the existing answers talk little about what used to motivate you to do research. You wrote, "where in the past research has been the saving grace keeping me interested in school, it now is losing a lot of its appeal". So what was that appeal, and how did it get lost?

Here are some possible answers, from my own experience; I'm sure there may be others in your case.

Did you get disillusioned about your field of research? Perhaps in the beginning you thought that if problems in this field were solved it would make a difference in the world, and now it seems that the big problems can't be solved and solving the small problems won't make a big difference?

Did you get disillusioned about academia? Did you have experiences that changed your view of academia? Did you come in the pursuit of truth and found that a lot of it is about the pursuit of publications?

Did you get disillusioned about your own abilities? Perhaps you were used to often being the best at what you were doing, and now you're surrounded by more smart people and your abilities seem less exceptional (and thus less motivating) in comparison?

Or perhaps your motivation had always been to please your parents and now that's not enough anymore?

I think having a clear understanding of what used to motivate you and why it stopped motivating you is a necessary and sufficient basis for the decision you're trying to make. If you lost interest in this particular field, you might have to look for a new field. If you lost the motivation that comes from a strong belief in your exceptional abilities, you might have to learn to enjoy being among the best and not necessarily the best. If your view of academia changed, you might try to find a place where academia is more how you'd like it to be, or if there doesn't seem to be one, perhaps academia isn't the right place for you. If you were only doing it for your parents, perhaps you should just leave. And if you lost interest because it turned out to be harder than you expected, then perhaps you should indeed "just put your head down and work through it, it's just a phase".

I think the key to sorting this out for yourself is to keep an open mind about your own motivations. Some of them may have been very pure and just got lost along the way and perhaps you can tap into them again; some of them may not seem so desirable now that you take a new look at them, and you may be glad not to have them anymore; but whatever they are, what's important is that you're honest about them to yourself and figure out how and why they changed, and that might allow you to see where they're leading you and whether staying or leaving is more in line with what's important to you now.

• 2 I like this post a lot because it clearly states the things almost everyone gets disillusioned about during a PhD: academia, your research topic, and your own potential. Losing faith in only one would be enough to affect you emotionally, but it's rarely just one. Accepting that both reaching your limits and the emotional journey (especially the negative emotions) are part of the program helps to stay positive. –  FvD Commented Aug 2, 2018 at 7:19

You are not alone.

Most graduate students are in their 20’s. Many have boy/girl friends and are away from their partners while in school. Many graduate students are international. They go abroad to study. They are away from their home countries. They study in a different environment/culture. They may have language problems. Fortunately, your situation is not that bad. Many graduate students go to graduate school as a family tradition. Their parents/relatives are academics. They were raised to be academics.

Most (if not all) graduate students have trouble with their course/research works in school one time or another. Many graduate students lose their interests in the school. Some quit. Some stay.

Your long post seems to suggest to me that you mixed your personal life with the graduate school life. We are human. We have emotions. We let our personal life interfere with other aspects of our life sometimes. We know we should not let it happen. But, it happens.

You did well in the first semester. Everything changed in the second one. Something happened. No one knows what happened except you. In other words, you are the only one who knows the answer.

I would suggest you to take a break, long or short, to figure out what you really want to do. Then, make your own decision.

There are good answers and commentaries here. I will not repeat them. I would emphasize something very important, your future is yours.

• 3 We know we should not let it happen — Huh? Why not? –  JeffE Commented May 7, 2013 at 6:41
• 6 @JeffE Sometimes, personal life would jeopardize the professional life. That’s what I mean. I am actually a victim. I gave up my academic life for personal reasons. I always regret it. Too late to change that. I try not to mention it in the answer because it’s too personal. –  Nobody Commented May 7, 2013 at 6:53

PhDs are not for everyone. That's why most top-tier schools have about a 50% retention rate, some closer to 25-30%. You need to discover what makes you passionate, and it might not be what a PhD will get you.

I have a friend who is currently getting his Bachelor's degree. His father is a rocket scientist for NASA, so naturally he went into the Physics program. It took only a couple semesters of C's and D's for him to realize Physics isn't for him, so he switched to Computer Science. Then he realized he hates Math, so he wanted to switch majors again.

All this time, though, he has had a creative outlet. He makes things, sometimes out of leather, sometimes out of steel; the other day he came to class with a clay pot he'd just finished. Toward the end of this last semester he went through with changing his major one last time. He already has too many CS credits to give up on that major altogether, but he's dropping the Math minor that comes de facto and is picking up an Art minor instead.

I've never seen him happier than he is now. He found what he's passionate about, and it's not what his father did. You have to discover your passion. And it sounds like the job you had back home is just that.

If you don't feel any passion or motivation after the second semester, I'd say you have to really take a hard look at if graduate school is something for you as you'd still have a few years to go. If you should quit or not firstly depends on what you want. You need to try and find out why you lost your passion. Was it there first, and did something cause it to leave? Where you ambivalent about graduate school, and now you found out it was not for you?

Please do not stay just because you might disappoint others, live is just too short for that.

Given the glut of PhD's I would suggest that you get a real job. A PhD is worth only if you are really interested in doing research otherwise you'll waste 4-5 years (then another 3-4 years doing a postdoc). Faculty positions are few and far between and then you'll have to worry about getting funds/tenure. So unless you're highly motivated by research/academia you'll mostly be miserable. In the industry a PhD doesn't make much more then a Masters and significantly less than a MBA, so there is no financial justification. Also there is a very good chance that you'll be working on things which don't even require a PhD. Some are lucky to find a good research environment but not everyone.

On the flip side if you do quit now then at some point you'll regret not getting a PhD. So think about what you want to do in life (besides having and providing for your children). A (PhD) degree is just a means to an end. People sometimes get emotional about it but they should not. Talk to your parents and I am sure they'll understand.

• 3 "A PhD is worth only if you are really interested in doing research" -- citation needed . Google, for instance, hires many PhDs and most of their time is spent in non-research work . –  Chris Gregg Commented May 6, 2013 at 12:43
• 5 @ChrisGregg Yes, but Google would have hired many of those same people with only master's or even bachelor's degrees. –  JeffE Commented May 6, 2013 at 12:55
• 7 Google gets PhDs for pretty much the same money as those with MS. I dont know of any firm where entry level PhDs are being paid 1.5x or more than those with MS or even BS. –  user7021 Commented May 6, 2013 at 14:25
• 1 @user7021 Yes, there is one. It is called Renaissance technologies. –  user774025 Commented Nov 2, 2013 at 8:21

I know how you feel because even as an undergraduate, I once packed my bags. But a friend prevailed on me and I'm still thankful for not quitting. Consider the following:

If you start a count down to finish date and get really excited about seeing the day approach, you'll know time passes really quickly.

Our emotions/feeling/circumstances are temporary/passing but our achievements (good or bad) are permanent.

Creative/innovative people (like you) get tired of routine. If you take interest in something around you that requires you to learn something challenging (say music) or something alien to you, your PhD vital signs may be positively influence.

I am not an expert at these things but I know that when I get tired of routine... I stimulate my creativity somewhere else... Not for the gain but for the challenge.

Good luck man...

First and foremost, you have to look out for you, and only you. By this, I mean your well-being, your happiness and your own future.

As many have said, rather than quit at this stage, take some time out from the study. If I may suggest some things to do in your hiatus - volunteer work, teaching in a high school, perhaps try something completely different.

You are definitely not alone - I am a PhD student and have found myself in the exact some situation, took some time - concentrated on my job (teaching), travelled, lived overseas, even did some acting. I felt rejuvenated and ready to tackle the project. In my case, I returned to study. But, all situations are very different - you have to give yourself some time and space to work out what it is you want.

I read your post and from what I can see you don't sound like you enjoy your PhD or academic life in general. I personally did not find the reason why your situation became so hard. Perhaps you don't feel ok with the fact that your girlfriend is at home and you have to be somewhere else. Perhaps you you don't find the project entertaining. I'd say it might be the research itself that does not motivate you. One thing I am certain about is that you have to feel passion for doing research. You need to be determined and driven. Otherwise, it's easy to lose motivation.

You may need to ask yourself if you really need to stay where you are! PhD is for those who plan to be professional researchers. It's only counts if you plan to stay at any university. Not only will this have to be your everyday job, you will also have to be the person who proposes many new projects and be a leader for others. If don't see yourself in this roll, then it's probably better if you consider quitting. It's nothing wrong with quitting PhD. Besides, you can still begin a PhD somewhere else. You don't need to stick to the one you don't enjoy.

I can tell you that I met many people in my office. Everyone of them had their sort of crisis and this seems quite natural stage in the whole process. The research is also not a usual job and can be frustrating. Things always go wrong. Only determination, enjoyment, and passion make people stay and continue their PhDs.

As some of the others already said, It's nothing wrong when you quit PhD. Taking a longer break, coming home for couple of months, calming down may help you realise and understand a lot of things which are difficult to spot when you under pressure.

• "PhD is for those who plan to be professional researchers" <- Not necessarily; there are other valid reasons. But you do need a good reason to work on whatever research you're working on - or you're unlikely to persevere. Don't work on Ph.D. research out of some kind of "academic inertia", because of your good grades/positive experience as an undergrad. –  einpoklum Commented Nov 17, 2020 at 13:14

It seems to me like the fundamental question here is that of whether or not your current feelings are part of a typical grad student "phase" or indicative of misaligned life goals, priorities, etc. on a much deeper level. Ultimately, a question you'll have to answer on your own and most likely by trusting your gut and intuition.

There are many, many reasons why you might be feeling the way you do now. From your description it's clear that you started the PhD process knowing you were accepting less than ideal conditions in some areas of your life with the understanding that these would be offset by other benefits. You might be more or less ambivalent about some of those benefits now that you're in the process, and the tradeoffs and benefits would certainly change if you were to switch sides and leave the program.

I would suggest assuming, for the time being, that one-year-ago you made a well educated calculation of the costs-benefits of the PhD program, in particular with a time horizon greater than 5 years.

Staying in the program then means trusting in the vision of one-year-ago you in that the long-term benefits to your life outweigh the immediate suffering (including the less than ideal use of your skills and the momentary loss of passion). On the other hand, your valuation of the tradeoffs and benefits of the PhD may have changed more than you expected, in particular with respect to your relationship or your connection to the research area.

The way to know this, in short, is to trust yourself. If your current path is just wrong for you -- if you feel you're compromising some fundamental part of yourself -- then trust that feeling. Otherwise, trust your prior vision: accept that your feelings are part of the PhD journey and trust that you'll find your passion again soon (when you stop putting pressure on yourself to find it).

One last thought that might really be the crux of the issue is that getting a PhD is a highly individualistic and very lonely experience. Richard Butterworth has a talk that really drove this home in which he says:

A PhD, by its very nature, is a very individualistic venture. ... The next big surprise for people who are starting PhDs after an undergraduate degree is just how excrutiatingly lonely a PhD is.

Your issues are real and I do not want to discount them in anyway.

In my view, you are in a privileged position and if you can make the most of it, then it would be not be a loss (as you tend to describe your experience now).

Here is a simple test: think of where you want to be in (say) five years from now? If you want to be in a place which requires a PhD, then start working on it now, other wise get out.

I know this is simplistic but it works when the issues are complicated and there are no easy solutions. At least in this way, you will make an informed decision and will not have the guilt later on!

Just suck it in and get it!

After you pass all the formal requirements, you will have a mini-tenure for 3/4/5 years (depending on the Dept you are in). I was thinking to quit first two years but now (in the mini-tenure period) I'm enjoying my life and research (from 9 to 5 only).

Try it, if you don't like it, you can always quit.

See if you can get a Master's in your second year, so that your graduate studies are not completely wasted. This is but too common in doctoral programs that they let students who are admitted to doctoral programs without being the "doctorate material" to finish the required number of courses, take the qualifier as the bottom line as far as qualification goes, and let you off with a Master's degree. They don't like that, but that's likely flight overbooking: you know that some people are not going to make it. Discuss this with your adviser.

For what I see on the earnings curves, there's a notable jump at 4 years of college/getting a Bachelor's degree, where the average earnings jump up by may be 15% from "Some college" to "BA degree" category. After that, the incomes are pretty flat, with a very modest 2 or so % return per year of education. So you ain't losing much in income, but an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead. I mean, if you drop out and found a Google or a Facebook, that's fine, but the probability of that happening is about 1e-6. (You don't know how funny that 20k figure is going to look like when your new wife asks you: "As I am expecting a baby, we need a bigger house... and also please open the college saving account for our baby", so your bold statements about income are totally out of line with real life. Or at least the life you will have in 10 years time.) The engineers that I taught seem to be starting off at $40-50Kpa, and I see no reason why a guy with a decent quant background should be making less than that.

• 11 who are admitted to doctoral programs without being the "doctorate material" — ...or decide for some other reason not to complete the PhD program. Your framing strongly suggests that everyone who drops out of their PhD program just aren't good enough; in my experience, this isn't even true as a first approximation. –  JeffE Commented May 6, 2013 at 22:39
• 11 an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead — Oh, come on. Seriously? –  JeffE Commented May 6, 2013 at 22:40
• 13 "an unfinished degree puts a big "L" across your forehead" "I have to say I don't know very many people who dropped out of a Ph.D. program." You probably do, they just choose not to be friends with you –  Amy Commented May 7, 2013 at 4:29
• 4 I also don't understand why an unfinished degree looks like a big "L". I was accepted into a program at a top tier school, which obviously means I was qualified to be there (full scholarship as well). I am doing well in my program despite my sentiments. Why would an employer frown upon me saying something like "Well, I went to do my PhD and I did very well, but I very quickly realized I didn't have passion for my research anymore and the doctorate did not feel like a good fit. Now I am searching for employment opportunities such as this one where I feel my skills and passion will be utilized" –  user7007 Commented May 7, 2013 at 6:13
• 14 @StasK I think your views on the matter are a little harsh (and in a way contribute to the fear people have of leaving a Ph.D program). A Ph.D is not the culmination of your academic career. It's a career choice , and like any choice is right for some and not for others. People are tempted to go for a Ph.D because it looks like "more school", but it takes time to realize that it's a choice of career and that it might not even be the right one. –  Suresh Commented May 7, 2013 at 16:17

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• 3 . 01 . 20
• Leaving Academia

Is a PhD Worth It? I Wish I’d Asked These 6 Questions First.

• Posted by: Chris

Updated Nov. 19, 2022

Is a PhD worth it?

Should I get a PhD?

A few people admit to regretting their PhD. Most—myself included — said that they don’t ( I wrote about why in this post ).

But we often say we don’t regret stupid things we’ve done or bad things that happen to us. This means we learned from them, not that we wanted them to happen.

So just because PhDs don’t regret it, doesn’t mean it was worth it.

But if you were to ask, Is a PhD worth it, it’s a different and more complicated question.

When potential PhD students ask me for advice, I hate giving it. I can’t possibly say whether it will be worth it for them. I only know from experience that for some PhDs the answer is no.

In this post, I’ll look at this question from five different directions, five different ways that a PhD could be worth it. Then I give my opinion on each one. You can tell me if I got the right ones of if I’m way off base. So here we go.

This is post contains affiliate links. Thanks for supporting Roostervane!

tl;dr It’s up to you to make it worth it. A PhD can hurt your finances, sink you in debt, and leave you with no clear path to success in some fields. But PhDs statistically earn more than their and have lower unemployment rates. A PhD also gives you a world-class mind, a global network, and a skill set that can go just about anywhere.

Should I Get a PhD?

tl;dr Don’t get a PhD by default. Think it through. Be clear about whether it’s going to help you reach career goals, and don’t expect to be a professor. A few rules of thumb- make sure you know where you want to go and whether a PhD is the ONLY way to get there, make sure it’s FUNDED (trust me), and make sure your program has strong ties into industry and a record of helping its students get there.

1. Is a PhD worth it for your finances?

My guess: Not usually

People waste a lot of their best years living on a grad stipend. To be honest, my money situation was pretty good in grad school. I won a large national grant, I got a ton of extra money in travel grants, and my Canadian province gave me grants for students with dependents. But even with a decent income, I was still in financial limbo–not really building wealth of any sort.

And many students scrape by on very small stipends while they study.

When it comes to entering the marketplace, research from Canada and the United States shows that PhD students eventually out-earn their counterparts with Master’s degrees. It takes PhDs a few years to find their stride, but most of us eventually do fine for earnings if we leave academia. Which is great, and perhaps surprising to many PhDs who think that a barista counter is the only non-academic future they have .

The challenge is not income–it’s time. If you as a PhD grad make marginally more than a Master’s graduate, but they entered the workforce a decade earlier, it takes a long time for even an extra $10,000 a year to catch up. The Master’s grad has had the time to build their net worth and network, perhaps buy a house, pay down debt, invest, and just generally get financially healthy.

While PhDs do fine in earnings in the long run, the opportunity cost of getting the PhD is significant.

The only real way to remedy this—if you’ve done a PhD and accumulating wealth is important to you, is to strategically maximize your earnings and your value in the marketplace to close the wealth gap. This takes education, self-discipline, and creativity, but it is possible.

I tried to calculate the opportunity cost of prolonging entry into the workforce in this post .

2. Is a PhD worth it for your career?

My guess: Impossible to tell

Most of my jobs have given me the perfect opportunity to see exactly where I could be if I’d stopped at a Master’s degree, often working alongside or for those who did and are further ahead. In terms of nuts and bolts of building career experience section on a resume, which is often the most important part, a PhD is rarely worth it. (Some STEM careers do require a PhD.)

However, at the start of my post-graduate educational journey, I was working part-time running teen programs and full time as a landscaper. I had an undergraduate degree. Despite my job and a half, I was still poor. My life had no direction, and had I not begun my Master’s to PhD journey I probably would have stayed there.

The PhD transformed me personally. It did this by developing my skills, or course. But even more so, it taught me that anything is possible. It took a poor kid from a mining town in northern Canada and gave me access to the world. It made my dreams of living abroad come true. I learned that anything is possible. And that will never go away.

It’s changed the course of my life and, subsequently, my career.

It’s impossible for you to know if it’s worth it for your career. But you can build a hell of a career with it.

So it wouldn’t be fair for me to say, “don’t get a PhD.” Because it worked out for me, and for some it does.

But there are a heck of a lot of people who haven’t figured out how to build a career with this thing. Which is one of the reasons Roostervane exists in the first place.

Psst! If you’re looking at doing a PhD because you don’t know where to go next with your career–I see you. Been there. Check out my free PDF guide– How to Build a Great Career with Any Degree.

3. Is a PhD worth it for your personal brand?

My guess: Probably

There’s some debate over whether to put a Dr. or PhD before or after your name. People argue over whether it helps in the non-academic marketplace. Some feel that it just doesn’t translate to whatever their new reality is. Some have been told by some manager somewhere that they’re overqualified and pulled themselves back, sometimes wiping the PhD off their resume altogether.

The truth is, if you have a PhD, the world often won’t know what to do with it. And that’s okay. Well-meaning people won’t understand how you fit into the landscape, and you may have to fight tooth and nail for your place in it. People may tell you they can’t use you, or they might go with what they know—which is someone less qualified and less-educated.

It happens.

But someone with a PhD at the end of their name represents an indomitable leader. So grow your possibilities bigger and keep fighting. And make your personal brand match those three little letters after your name. Do this so that the world around can’t help but see you as a leader. More importantly, do it so that you don’t forget you are.

Should I put “PhD” after my name on LinkedIn?

5 reasons you need to brand yourself

4. Is a PhD worth it for your sense of purpose?

Is getting a PhD worth it? For many people the answer is no.

PhDs are hurting.

If you’ve done one, you know. Remember the sense of meaning and purpose that drew you towards a PhD program? Was it still there at the end? If yours was, you’re lucky. I directed my purpose into getting hired in a tenure-track job, and got very hurt when it didn’t happen.

And people have vastly different experiences within programs.

Some people go through crap. But for them their research is everything and putting up with crap is worth it to feel like they have a sense of purpose. Many PhDs who are drawn into programs chasing a sense of purpose leave deeply wounded and disenchanted, ironically having less purpose when they started.

While new PhDs often talk about the PhD as a path do doing “something meaningful,” those of us who have been through entire programs have often seen too much. We’ve either seen or experienced tremendous loss of self. Some have friends who didn’t make it out the other end of the PhD program.

But there are some PhDs who have a great experience in their programs and feel tremendously fulfilled.

As I reflect on it, I don’t think a sense of purpose is inherently fulfilled or disappointed by a PhD program. There are too many variables.

However, if you’re counting on a PhD program to give you a sense of purpose, I’d be very careful. I’d be even more cautious if purpose for you means “tenure-track professor.” Think broadly about what success means to you and keep an open mind .

5. Is my discipline in demand?

Okay, so you need to know that different disciplines have different experiences. Silicon Valley has fallen in love with some PhDs, and we’re seeing “PhD required” or “PhD preferred” on more and more job postings. So if your PhD is in certain, in-demand subjects… It can be a good decision.

My humanities PhD, on the other hand, was a mistake. I’m 5 years out now, and I’ve learned how to use it and make money with it. That’s the great news. But I’d never recommend that anyone get a PhD in the humanities. Sorry. I really wish I could. It’s usually a waste of years of your life, and you’ll need to figure out how to get a totally unrelated job after anyway.

TBH, most of the skills I make money with these days I taught myself on Skillshare .

6. Is a PhD worth it for your potential?

My guess: Absolutely

Every human being has unlimited potential, of course. But here’s the thing that really can make your PhD worth it. The PhD can amplify your potential. It gives you a global reach, it gives you a recognizable brand, and it gives you a mind like no other.

One of my heroes is Brené Brown. She’s taken research and transformed the world with it, speaking to everyone from Wall-Street leaders to blue-collar workers about vulnerability, shame, and purpose. She took her PhD and did amazing things with it.

Your potential at the end of your PhD is greater than it has ever been.

The question is, what will you do with that potential?

Many PhD students are held back, not by their potential, but by the fact that they’ve learned to believe that they’re worthless. Your potential is unlimited, but when you are beaten and exhausted, dragging out of a PhD program with barely any self-worth left, it’s very hard to reach your potential. You first need to repair your confidence.

But if you can do that, if you can nurture your confidence and your greatness every day until you begin to believe in yourself again, you can take your potential and do anything you want with it.

So why get a PhD?

Because it symbolizes your limitless potential. If you think strategically about how to put it to work.

PhD Graduates Don’t Need Resumes. They Need a Freaking Vision

By the way… Did you know I wrote a book about building a career with a PhD? You can read the first chapter for free on Amazon.

So if you’re asking me, “should I do a PhD,” I hope this post helps you. Try your best to check your emotion, and weigh the pros and cons.

And at the end of the day, I don’t think that whether a PhD is worth it or not is some fixed-in-stone thing. In fact, it depends on what you do with it.

So why not make it worth it? Work hard on yourself to transform into a leader worthy of the letters after your name, and don’t be afraid to learn how to leverage every asset the PhD gave you.

One of the reasons I took my PhD and launched my own company is that I saw how much more impact I could have and money I could be making as a consultant (perhaps eventually with a few employees). As long as I worked for someone else, I could see that my income would likely be capped. Working for myself was a good way to maximize my output and take control of my income.

It’s up to you to make it worth it. Pick what’s important to you and how the degree helps you get there, and chase it. Keep an open mind about where life will take you, but always be asking yourself how you can make more of it.

Check out the related post- 15 Good, Bad, and Awful Reasons People Go to Grad School. — I Answer the Question, “Should I Go to Grad School?” )

Consulting Secrets 3 – Landing Clients

Photo by Christian Sterk on Unsplash There’s a new type of post buzzing around LinkedIn. I confess, I’ve even made a few.  The post is

You’re Not Good Enough… Yet

Last year, I spent $7k on a business coach. She was fantastic. She helped me through sessions of crafting my ideas to become a “thought

$200/hr Expert? Here’s the Secret!

Photo by David Monje on Unsplash I was listening to Tony Robbins this week. He was talking about being the best.  Tony asks the audience,

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• Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]

Has anyone ever regretted getting a PhD in clinical psych?

• Thread starter AnonymousClinicalPsych
• Start date Oct 20, 2021

AnonymousClinicalPsych

Full member.

• Oct 20, 2021

Board Certified in Clinical Neuropsychology

I don't have any big regrets. I enjoy what I do, and I have a lot of leeway to change focus if I wanted to do so. Also, I make pretty good money for the time spent working, though doing IME work helps in this.  

WisNeuro said: I don't have any big regrets. I enjoy what I do, and I have a lot of leeway to change focus if I wanted to do so. Also, I make pretty good money for the time spent working, though doing IME work helps in this. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Thanks for your response! Could you clarify what IME is? I’m not familiar with that acronym. I also see that you are a neuropsychologist. How different that is from a clinical psychologist? I assume that you primarily focus on assessment? Do you do therapy at all? Click to expand...

deleted106747

I've regretted it from time to time, and liked it at others. I didn't really like it completely until I went into hospital mental health administration, so I do think you eventually can find your niche.  

Board-certified psychologist

I never regretted it and like most of my job, but I would have probably gone into contract law if I’d known that existed when I was in undergrad.  

AbnormalPsych

Board certified psychologist.

I have regretted it at times and would do it all over again others. I have peers who feel the same. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I guess I would just ask you what would you be happier doing and if you have a clear answer, that might be worth pursuing exploration of. A PhD can certainly open a lot of doors.  

Psychologist

Regret is just another way of learning. It’s the same thing as reinforcement and punishment. You can regret what you have done. You can regret what you haven’t done. If you learn from it, regret is a positive thing. There are many other professional activities you can do. There are likely many more undiscovered things. $100k is lowball. Learn how billing works. Do the math.  

PsyDr said: Regret is just another way of learning. It’s the same thing as reinforcement and punishment. You can regret what you have done. You can regret what you haven’t done. If you learn from it, regret is a positive thing. There are many other professional activities you can do. There are likely many more undiscovered things. $100k is lowball. Learn how billing works. Do the math. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: If $100k is lowball then how much is reasonable? I’m genuinely asking. How do you “learn how billing works” and “do the math”? If you have more info that you feel comfortable sharing please do. It’s interesting how people are still very vague about money even when it’s anonymous. Click to expand...

AbnormalPsych said: I have regretted it at times and would do it all over again others. I have peers who feel the same. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I guess I would just ask you what would you be happier doing and if you have a clear answer, that might be worth pursuing exploration of. A PhD can certainly open a lot of doors. Click to expand...

PsyDr said: 1). Reasonable? As much as you can earn. Telling won’t help you. What will is getting you to look up the professional surveys on income. Someone is the max on that. So… between $60k-$900k. Outside of me, there are people on SDN who make less than $40k/yr, and some that can make $40k in 2 weeks. 2) Learn the CPT codes used in psychology. This is easily found on APA sites via google. Usually laziness is the barrier to this step. 3) look up CMS’ fee schedule tool. Again: google. 4) look up the expected percentage of billable hours for hours worked. Both attorneys and physicians have easily accessible numbers on this via the google. 5) multiply those numbers. Maybe search for the number of hours worked per year, less vacation and sick days. Or multiply 40hrs/wk*50weeks/yr. 6) accept that the industry is: hourly rate X billable hours worked. The options are to work longer hours, make more per hour, or find a way to multiply your hours per day. But you’re in NYC, so you can’t use technicians. And books don’t work. TL;DR: if you hustle, you’ll want to learn the business of it all. That process will teach you 50% of the business. If you can’t be bothered to teach yourself, you can’t be bothered fo earn. That’s not a knock on you or anyone else. But Wallstreet isn’t based on pikers. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Thank you! It is a good question, but I don’t know if it’s useful to think about it at this point of my life. It’s not like I can just quit my program and change career now if I figure out what I’m truly passionate about. I can’t imagine giving up all the things I’ve learned and starting from scratch. I guess I’d be happier if I know I can at least make a decent amount of money after getting this ridiculously-hard-to-get degree, even if I have to do something that I don’t like that much. Click to expand...

PsychPhDone

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and would like to get people's opinions on questions I don't feel comfortable asking people I know. I'm currently half way through a partially-funded PhD program in clinical psych, and starting to feel regretful for getting this degree. I'm not saying that I want to switch career now, that would be a reckless decision given how much I've already invested at this point. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or differently. The main reason for my regret is that I don't enjoy doing therapy (my program is much more clinical than researchy, even though it's a PhD program) as much as I thought. Maybe that's my own fault for not figuring this out beforehand, but I feel it's really hard to know what doing therapy is really about and feels like until you actually get trained and do it. In this country at least you really don't have much opportunity to get exposed to that unless you are in a doctoral program or a license track master's program. I'm also just tired of the endless work and the amount of effort that you have to devote into getting this degree. I did prepare myself for it before going into it, but it just became so much harder after you realize that you don't actually like it AND feel disappointed by your program's quality (this is a very subjective opinion of mine). I feel like I've exhausted my will power muscle at this point. Also, by the time I can start make actual money (i.e.after completing internship, post-doc, licensure) I'll be in my early thirties, with peers who have already worked at least 7 or 8 years, probably advanced to a mid-level position in their field, and make more money than I do. In fact, I don't even know how much does an entry-level psychologist make. No one talks about that in school and I haven't been able to find a way to ask that question in a way that's not awkward or rude. Any one knows? I know it depends on a lot of different factors and the setting, but just generally speaking, how much would you be able to take home if you are in private practice or a hospital in NYC? I'm guessing around $100K?? I feel that just doesn't justify the effort required for this degree. Call me shallow or superficial, but I think money is an important thing in the end. If you just need to have a job to make a living, why not choose one that requires less education and effort but may give you the same payout. The good thing is that I don't have any debt, just because I'm lucky enough to have parents who are willing to pay for the tuition and expenses. But even with that, I question whether this is all worth it. Please share your thoughts. Thank you. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I do appreciate the info you provided. But it feels that you are very quick to judge that people are just dumb and lazy. I’d appreciate your help even more if it wasn’t delivered in such a condescending manner ) Click to expand...

Sanman said: What's a decent amount of money? Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I guess I'd be fine with a $100K starting salary and the potential to earn up to $150k-200k as the years go by, given that I live in NYC where everything is more expansive than the rest of the country. I have friends with a masters degree in another field who earn roughly $100k after 2 years of experience and those with a PhD in another field have a starting salary of $140K. I guess what I'm asking is not ridiculous? Click to expand...

Sanman said: That's because no one is laying out a free step by step playbook on how you can compete with them. We have all spent years figuring this out. There are a lot of ways to make money. Many tips are all around these boards on old threads. Do some reading. Figure out how you want to make money. If you want the medical school $300k job offer from a random hospital upon graduation. That is not going to happen. Click to expand...

PsyDr said: I can understand the perception. Information is insufficient to earn money. You’d think it’s condescending for me to say, “go to Harvard law, get a federal judge clerkship in finance, work for Brewster, and earn 7 figures”. That advice does nothing to help you earn. Earning money is NOT only about information, or even ability. It requires effort, and a lot of humility. If you’re not willing to put that effort in, there’s nothing that can help you. It’s like me. I spent time trying to help you. But since my effort is met with negativity, I regret giving you any information. Click to expand...

Clinical PhD Student

I'd also think about money/hours worked or money/stress when looking at other industries, especially since you're in NYC. I used to live there and work at a hedge fund, and I can promise you that most people there who made obscene amounts of money 1. were miserable and 2. had next to no time to spend their money because they were always working. Totally agree that money is a valid concern, but the dollar value itself isn't the whole picture.  

Dazen said: I'd also think about money/hours worked or money/stress when looking at other industries, especially since you're in NYC. I used to live there and work at a hedge fund, and I can promise you that most people there who made obscene amounts of money 1. were miserable and 2. had next to no time to spend their money because they were always working. Totally agree that money is a valid concern, but the dollar value itself isn't the whole picture. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I feel that we are talking about a different thing now. I might have misunderstood your previous post, but that doesn't matter now. "Regret is just another way of learning."--PsyDr Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: It’s not like I can just quit my program and change career now if I figure out what I’m truly passionate about. I can’t imagine giving up all the things I’ve learned and starting from scratch. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I was asking if people have information on the general salary that an entry-level psychologist make in NYC. I did do some reading on old threads but that specific information is hard to find/search on internet Click to expand...

singasongofjoy

Try looking up vocation, salary by region on Occupational Network (Google O*Net) if you want some numbers.  

AbnormalPsych said: Yes. You can. People do it. I've seen it. Also the reverse, with people in their 40s quitting prior careers and coming into PhD programs to start a new journey. Just cause you have difficulty imagining it doesn't mean anything. This information is on the APA website. In fancy colorful charts and graphs too. It is a couple years old at least since I last looked at it. I would be surprised if they took it down. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: lol thank you for your optimism. Yes I can. In theory I can do anything I want. But the question is whether it is realistic. I can go to an acting academy and be an actor and potentially earn millions of dollars. But that's not a realistic plan for life. I'm really not considering to have all those years and money spent in my education wasted and do something else, which may take even more time and cost more money, when I'm not 15 years old. Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm not trying to bash you, I just want to be realistic. My original intention was to see if people feel the same way, so that I can get some validation and feel less unhappy. Or if people feel differently, what their point of view is so maybe I can learn from that. Click to expand...

• Oct 21, 2021

I ended up changing directions after finishing my PhD. I was always more research focused than clinically focused. I don't so much regret the decision to pursue a PhD, but the career lost a lot of luster during postdoc and I figured my skills would be more lucrative in the business world. I also wanted to have a more normal schedule and have time to spend with my partner, raise a family, and engage in other hobbies. At the end, psychology was just a job, one that didn't pay all that well as a post-doc/early career psychologist, and I could imagine doing a lot of other things with my skills. After internship and two post-docs I pivoted to becoming a business analyst. My background in stats, research methods, and clinical skills have been an asset for researching business processes, gathering requirements for projects, project management, people management, etc. I still do a lot of data analysis, which I love, and do a lot of problem solving as I am housed in an IT department. All that being said, I still miss psychology and some of what I used to study, the writing, and sometimes the clinical issues, which is why I still lurk here...haha. There are good things and bad things with every job, you just have to decide if you want your time, values and skills going towards something in psychology or something else. A PhD prepares you well for other paths, and having a PhD on your resume can quickly give you a leg up regardless of what you do.  

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I was asking if people have information on the general salary that an entry-level psychologist make in NYC. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I feel what I'm asking is reasonable giving the effort that's required for the degree. Click to expand...

cotn_psych said: I ended up changing directions after finishing my PhD. I was always more research focused than clinically focused. I don't so much regret the decision to pursue a PhD, but the career lost a lot of luster during postdoc and I figured my skills would be more lucrative in the business world. I also wanted to have a more normal schedule and have time to spend with my partner, raise a family, and engage in other hobbies. At the end, psychology was just a job, one that didn't pay all that well as a post-doc/early career psychologist, and I could imagine doing a lot of other things with my skills. After internship and two post-docs I pivoted to becoming a business analyst. My background in stats, research methods, and clinical skills have been an asset for researching business processes, gathering requirements for projects, project management, people management, etc. I still do a lot of data analysis, which I love, and do a lot of problem solving as I am housed in an IT department. All that being said, I still miss psychology and some of what I used to study, the writing, and sometimes the clinical issues, which is why I still lurk here...haha. There are good things and bad things with every job, you just have to decide if you want your time, values and skills going towards something in psychology or something else. A PhD prepares you well for other paths, and having a PhD on your resume can quickly give you a leg up regardless of what you do. Click to expand...

Psycycle said: I've regretted it from time to time, and liked it at others. I didn't really like it completely until I went into hospital mental health administration, so I do think you eventually can find your niche. Click to expand...

MCParent said: I never regretted it and like most of my job, but I would have probably gone into contract law if I’d known that existed when I was in undergrad. Click to expand...

AbnormalPsych said: This information is on the APA website. In fancy colorful charts and graphs too. It is a couple years old at least since I last looked at it. I would be surprised if they took it down. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Do you mind telling me why you would have gone into contract law? Click to expand...

MCParent said: I’m doing an MBA right now and the business law class I took was amazing. Contract law combines my passions for being petty and punishing people for not attending to details. Seriously though it is super fascinating to me and there are ways to help people from getting screwed over by predatory contracts. Click to expand...

WisNeuro said: Like 50/50 reimbursement splits and overly broad/unenforceable non-compete clauses? Click to expand...

Sanman said: That's why I plan to offer prospective employees a 30/70 split. 50/50 seems much too generous. Click to expand...

WisNeuro said: I plan to forgo expensive and unnecessary health insurance plans and instead offer them a sit/stand desk instead. Click to expand...

Therapist4Chnge

Neuropsych ninja.

I regret going to a poorly funded program. My mentors were all older and out of touch w. the application process (this was pre-SDN), so I had no idea there were balanced Ph.D. programs...they all went to hardcore research programs in the midwest. I found the grad school book for clinical psych at a bookstore, but I didn't really understand all of the other things I should have considered. I made the most of it and I generally enjoy what I do, but it took a lot of time and sacrifice to get here. If I could do it again, I'd either do behavioral neurology or skip healthcare all together and work in finance / stock market. I'd be on my 2nd vacation home by now like some friends and family.  

Therapist4Chnge said: I regret going to a poorly funded program. My mentors were all older and out of touch w. the application process (this was pre-SDN), so I had no idea there were balanced Ph.D. programs...they all went to hardcore research programs in the midwest. I found the grad school book for clinical psych at a bookstore, but I didn't really understand all of the other things I should have considered. I made the most of it and I generally enjoy what I do, but it took a lot of time and sacrifice to get here. If I could do it again, I'd either do behavioral neurology or skip healthcare all together and work in finance / stock market. I'd be on my 2nd vacation home by now like some friends and family. Click to expand...

borne_before

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and would like to get people's opinions on questions I don't feel comfortable asking people I know. I'm currently half way through a partially-funded PhD program in clinical psych, and starting to feel regretful for getting this degree. I'm not saying that I want to switch career now, that would be a reckless decision given how much I've already invested at this point. I just want to see if anyone feels the same way or differently. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: The main reason for my regret is that I don't enjoy doing therapy (my program is much more clinical than researchy, even though it's a PhD program) as much as I thought. Maybe that's my own fault for not figuring this out beforehand, but I feel it's really hard to know what doing therapy is really about and feels like until you actually get trained and do it. In this country at least you really don't have much opportunity to get exposed to that unless you are in a doctoral program or a license track master's program. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: I'm also just tired of the endless work and the amount of effort that you have to devote into getting this degree . I did prepare myself for it before going into it, but it just became so much harder after you realize that you don't actually like it AND feel disappointed by your program's quality (this is a very subjective opinion of mine) . I feel like I've exhausted my will power muscle at this point. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Also, by the time I can start make actual money (i.e.after completing internship, post-doc, licensure) I'll be in my early thirties, with peers who have already worked at least 7 or 8 years, probably advanced to a mid-level position in their field, and make more money than I do. Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: In fact, I don't even know how much does an entry-level psychologist make. No one talks about that in school and I haven't been able to find a way to ask that question in a way that's not awkward or rude. Any one knows? I know it depends on a lot of different factors and the setting, but just generally speaking, how much would you be able to take home if you are in private practice or a hospital in NYC? I'm guessing around $100K?? I feel that just doesn't justify the effort required for this degree. Call me shallow or superficial, but I think money is an important thing in the end. If you just need to have a job to make a living, why not choose one that requires less education and effort but may give you the same payout. Click to expand...

borne_before said: Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy! But, I suspect there is something else going on here... What don't you like about therapy? Are you hella self-conscious? Are you doing therapy that just isn't a great fit for your style? What are your placements? Are you taking therapy too seriously? Are you not vibing with your supervisors. There are many psychologists who just don't like doing therapy. It's often not my favorite thing, either. So I focus more on assessment of the neurodevelopmental disorders and behavioral consultation with parents (aka parent management training, aka sticker charts and time out 101). Or you can just be a dirty academic, all smug up in the ivory tower, doing research or just teaching. There is nothing wrong with that route. But, you might want to start building that side of it. This feeling is called burnout! I think it's very normal midway through your doc program. I'm also wondering if maybe some depression has snuck up on you. COVID has sucked... Did you move from your support system? Are you the first grad student in your family? Do you ever get some damn sunshine on your skin? Are you exercising regularly? Do you live on hoth and the short cold days are getting to you? Also, slow down bro. You don't have to have everything figured out and mapped perfectly. Set short term goals. Like just focus on getting to Christmas. Is there anyway to increase your involvement in the program so you feel more connected to it? I had this same feeling. I was 32 when I got licensed. I talked with my dad about it and he said, "are you gonna be 32, either way?" BTW - my parents were like yours, I never took loans, they helped me a ton. Money is important. I currently make more than anyone in my graduating class. But no one really gets wealthy by doing therapy. They get wealthy by making smart financial decisions, minimizing expenses, and finding other routes to income. For instance, you could run a private practice or start an ABA clinic or something. Don't worry about the money too much. The degree, if it doesn't kill your soul, will be the best investment you'll ever make. Grad school is supposed to suck. Its part of the experience. But, I'm wondering if maybe, the old black dog hasn't crept up on you and maybe a little good ole fashioned Prozac and therapy will help Click to expand...

borne_before said: Don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy! But, I suspect there is something else going on here... What don't you like about therapy? Are you hella self-conscious? Are you doing therapy that just isn't a great fit for your style? What are your placements? Are you taking therapy too seriously? Are you not vibing with your supervisors. There are many psychologists who just don't like doing therapy. It's often not my favorite thing, either. So I focus more on assessment of the neurodevelopmental disorders and behavioral consultation with parents (aka parent management training, aka sticker charts and time out 101). Or you can just be a dirty academic, all smug up in the ivory tower, doing research or just teaching. There is nothing wrong with that route. But, you might want to start building that side of it. This feeling is called burnout! I think it's very normal midway through your doc program. I'm also wondering if maybe some depression has snuck up on you. COVID has sucked... Did you move from your support system? Are you the first grad student in your family? Do you ever get some damn sunshine on your skin? Are you exercising regularly? Do you live on hoth and the short cold days are getting to you? Also, slow down bro. You don't have to have everything figured out and mapped perfectly. Set short term goals. Like just focus on getting to Christmas. Is there anyway to increase your involvement in the program so you feel more connected to it? I had this same feeling. I was 32 when I got licensed. I talked with my dad about it and he said, "are you gonna be 32, either way?" BTW - my parents were like yours, I never took loans, they helped me a ton. Money is important. I currently make more than anyone in my graduating class. But no one really gets wealthy by doing therapy. They get wealthy by making smart financial decisions, minimizing expenses, and finding other routes to income. For instance, you could run a private practice or start an ABA clinic or something. Don't worry about the money too much. The degree, if it doesn't kill your soul, will be the best investment you'll ever make. Grad school is supposed to suck. Its part of the experience. But, I'm wondering if maybe, the old black dog hasn't crept up on you and maybe a little good ole fashioned Prozac and therapy will help. Click to expand...

LCSW, private practice

• Oct 22, 2021

I can't answer your questions about regret because I don't have a Ph.D., but just as one data point about private practice income, I'm an LCSW in NYC in and my net income is around $12,500 a month and climbing. I currently see about 23-25 clients a week after cancellations. I also write and consult, but that doesn't usually bring in more than an additional $10K or so a year (so I guess about $160K total). That said, I have some niche skills, am licensed in two states, and have built a great referral network in the year I've been practicing privately. My therapist friends whose fees are lower, who don't have sought-after specialties, or who don't have a knack for self-promotion seem to make less. Also, I like what I do. I don't think I'd stay in the field if I didn't. The stress of running a solo practice is manageable, but the stress of doing that and disliking the work would make my life a living hell. Think about that as you consider alternative career paths. It might be worth shaving a bit off your income to, y'know, be happy.  

Qwerk said: I can't answer your questions about regret because I don't have a Ph.D., but just as one data point about private practice income, I'm an LCSW in NYC in and my net income is around $12,500 a month and climbing. I currently see about 23-25 clients a week after cancellations. I also write and consult, but that doesn't usually bring in more than an additional $10K or so a year (so I guess about $160K total). That said, I have some niche skills, am licensed in two states, and have built a great referral network in the year I've been practicing privately. My therapist friends whose fees are lower, who don't have sought-after specialties, or who don't have a knack for self-promotion seem to make less. Also, I like what I do. I don't think I'd stay in the field if I didn't. The stress of running a solo practice is manageable, but the stress of doing that and disliking the work would make my life a living hell. Think about that as you consider alternative career paths. It might be worth shaving a bit off your income to, y'know, be happy. Click to expand...

Sanman said: We should post this for everyone who says an LCSW can't make any money and they need a third rate doctorate. Publicly funded MSW FTW! Click to expand...

WisNeuro said: But...but, I really want to be a Dr! Click to expand...

AnonymousClinicalPsych said: Haha you are not a real doctor if you don't have an MD. Not my opinion. Most people in this country tend to think that. Click to expand...

Sanman said: MSW + $10 in color printing charges at Kinkos for doctoral diploma PDF downloaded of the internet+$40 frame? Click to expand...

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